Comments on: The Draft – Even More Confusing Than I Thought http://dudesonhockey.com/2009/06/30/the-draft-even-more-confusing-than-i-thought/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-draft-even-more-confusing-than-i-thought Two dudes blogging and podcasting about the San Jose Sharks, straight from sunny California. Tue, 22 May 2012 23:12:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Ivan M http://dudesonhockey.com/2009/06/30/the-draft-even-more-confusing-than-i-thought/#comment-4321 Ivan M Wed, 01 Jul 2009 00:40:10 +0000 http://sharks.hockeyanalysis.com/?p=380#comment-4321 JBo signed with Calgary. It's going to be a very interesting day tomorrow, or so I hope. JBo signed with Calgary.

It’s going to be a very interesting day tomorrow, or so I hope.

]]> By: Ivan M http://dudesonhockey.com/2009/06/30/the-draft-even-more-confusing-than-i-thought/#comment-4320 Ivan M Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:25:53 +0000 http://sharks.hockeyanalysis.com/?p=380#comment-4320 And yet here we are, on a losing end of 4 of the last 7 playoff series since the lockout, just about every time as a higher seed, Detroit 07 series being the only exception. Let me state my point more clearly here - DW has done a good job building a team for a regular season, but has done a very poor job building a playoff contender. Take off your teal colored glasses for a second and you may just understand why the rest of the league was laughing at us yet again this spring. Not all of this is DW's fault, but he's not going to rule forever here unless we finally achieve a goal of a long playoff run. With out or without Marleau, Boyle, Nabokov, Thornton, Vlasic, Seto - I no longer care. I'm tired of being a joke of a league whenever it comes to playoff discussions. And yet here we are, on a losing end of 4 of the last 7 playoff series since the lockout, just about every time as a higher seed, Detroit 07 series being the only exception.

Let me state my point more clearly here – DW has done a good job building a team for a regular season, but has done a very poor job building a playoff contender. Take off your teal colored glasses for a second and you may just understand why the rest of the league was laughing at us yet again this spring. Not all of this is DW’s fault, but he’s not going to rule forever here unless we finally achieve a goal of a long playoff run.

With out or without Marleau, Boyle, Nabokov, Thornton, Vlasic, Seto – I no longer care. I’m tired of being a joke of a league whenever it comes to playoff discussions.

]]> By: bcsteve http://dudesonhockey.com/2009/06/30/the-draft-even-more-confusing-than-i-thought/#comment-4319 bcsteve Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:13:34 +0000 http://sharks.hockeyanalysis.com/?p=380#comment-4319 And Ken Holland. And Ken Holland.

]]> By: bcsteve http://dudesonhockey.com/2009/06/30/the-draft-even-more-confusing-than-i-thought/#comment-4318 bcsteve Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:13:11 +0000 http://sharks.hockeyanalysis.com/?p=380#comment-4318 It would be absolutely ludicrous to let DW walk anytime in the near future unless he trades Joe and Boyle to NY for Antropov and Redden. The guy has built a consistent winner, and pretty cheaply with the exception of this past year. He has made the necessary trades to take the team to a new level (Campbell, Boyle). And the hiring of McLellan was the perfect hire for our talent. Moreover, his drafts have been exceptional in evaluating and getting good talent. It seems that the general consensus is that we don't have enough grit or nastiness, but he's tried to remedy that too acquiring Shelley, Moen, and signing Lemieux. Everybody complains about Marleau being so passive, but get this: DW didn't draft Marleau. What more could you want from the guy? To blame this year's failure, or any other since the lockout, on DW is completely unfair. In my opinion, he is arguably the best GM in the game, right up there with Burke. It would be absolutely ludicrous to let DW walk anytime in the near future unless he trades Joe and Boyle to NY for Antropov and Redden. The guy has built a consistent winner, and pretty cheaply with the exception of this past year. He has made the necessary trades to take the team to a new level (Campbell, Boyle). And the hiring of McLellan was the perfect hire for our talent. Moreover, his drafts have been exceptional in evaluating and getting good talent. It seems that the general consensus is that we don’t have enough grit or nastiness, but he’s tried to remedy that too acquiring Shelley, Moen, and signing Lemieux. Everybody complains about Marleau being so passive, but get this: DW didn’t draft Marleau. What more could you want from the guy? To blame this year’s failure, or any other since the lockout, on DW is completely unfair. In my opinion, he is arguably the best GM in the game, right up there with Burke.

]]> By: Ivan M http://dudesonhockey.com/2009/06/30/the-draft-even-more-confusing-than-i-thought/#comment-4317 Ivan M Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:55:06 +0000 http://sharks.hockeyanalysis.com/?p=380#comment-4317 Ruben - I wouldn't go as far as to suggest Penguins only won because they have Malkin and Crosby. They don't beat Detroit without Staal, Kennedy, Talbot, Guerin, Gonchar, Oprik, Fluery and other players, and it is GMs job that they're there. For example, most of Penguins fans were demanding Staal to get traded when Penguins were chocking back in Nov/Dec, yet their GM didn't do it. It was also GM who made the decision to fire Terrien. Terrien was unable to beat Detroit the year before. Yet it was Balysma who designed their new offense that utilized Malkin to his best advantage and it was Balysma who somehow found a way to completely shut down Detroit in games 4, 6 and 7. Was it the luck of the draw that all these things fell together nicely? I don't know how Sharks owners will be able to look at another early playoff exit and say to Wilson, "sure, one more year, our friend! keep trying, boy!" I'm seeing this as DW's team, especially since he's been in charge for six years and I wouldn't want him to have a free pass every year just because we have good regular seasons. Ruben -
I wouldn’t go as far as to suggest Penguins only won because they have Malkin and Crosby. They don’t beat Detroit without Staal, Kennedy, Talbot, Guerin, Gonchar, Oprik, Fluery and other players, and it is GMs job that they’re there. For example, most of Penguins fans were demanding Staal to get traded when Penguins were chocking back in Nov/Dec, yet their GM didn’t do it.

It was also GM who made the decision to fire Terrien. Terrien was unable to beat Detroit the year before. Yet it was Balysma who designed their new offense that utilized Malkin to his best advantage and it was Balysma who somehow found a way to completely shut down Detroit in games 4, 6 and 7. Was it the luck of the draw that all these things fell together nicely?

I don’t know how Sharks owners will be able to look at another early playoff exit and say to Wilson, “sure, one more year, our friend! keep trying, boy!”

I’m seeing this as DW’s team, especially since he’s been in charge for six years and I wouldn’t want him to have a free pass every year just because we have good regular seasons.

]]> By: Ruben http://dudesonhockey.com/2009/06/30/the-draft-even-more-confusing-than-i-thought/#comment-4316 Ruben Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:37:29 +0000 http://sharks.hockeyanalysis.com/?p=380#comment-4316 The Penguins are a pretty poor example of how to build a consistent winner. Not every team has TWO generational talents simply fall into their lap at virtually the same time. They deserve their cup, but unlike the Red Wings, theirs is due almost solely to the players as opposed to coaching or the skill of their GM. Dismissing DW, at least in the near future, would be a HUGE mistake for the Sharks. And that stuff about the draft sounds pretty much right on as to what I was saying about that Pronger trade. People are saying this is a coup for the Ducks. The coup for the Ducks was PAYING that to get Pronger in the first place. The only redeeming value is that they got pronger long term, whereas Philly gets him for a year. That should have been enough to take away a 1st rounder and the D prospect (assuming the Flyers don't extend him). And the Sharks are great at drafting good to great players. They rarely hit the home run, but their drafting allows them room to pay the Joe Thorntons and Dan Boyles. The Penguins are a pretty poor example of how to build a consistent winner. Not every team has TWO generational talents simply fall into their lap at virtually the same time. They deserve their cup, but unlike the Red Wings, theirs is due almost solely to the players as opposed to coaching or the skill of their GM. Dismissing DW, at least in the near future, would be a HUGE mistake for the Sharks.

And that stuff about the draft sounds pretty much right on as to what I was saying about that Pronger trade. People are saying this is a coup for the Ducks. The coup for the Ducks was PAYING that to get Pronger in the first place. The only redeeming value is that they got pronger long term, whereas Philly gets him for a year. That should have been enough to take away a 1st rounder and the D prospect (assuming the Flyers don’t extend him).

And the Sharks are great at drafting good to great players. They rarely hit the home run, but their drafting allows them room to pay the Joe Thorntons and Dan Boyles.

]]> By: Bryce http://dudesonhockey.com/2009/06/30/the-draft-even-more-confusing-than-i-thought/#comment-4315 Bryce Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:28:50 +0000 http://sharks.hockeyanalysis.com/?p=380#comment-4315 It's funny that you mention the Sharks only Marquee signing from the UFA world is Rob Blake. The other day I was thinking about the California teams in general and what kind of UFA signing have they made that were marquee/superstar players. It just doesn't happen. I think I saw Anaheim had signed Selanne(though he'd played with them before) and Scott Neidermayer(wanted to play with his brother) aside from that they are comprised of either draft picks or traded players(their big name players). That's similar to the Sharks. I did not have a chance to go looking through the Kings. Perhaps that'd be a good blog for you Mike. It’s funny that you mention the Sharks only Marquee signing from the UFA world is Rob Blake. The other day I was thinking about the California teams in general and what kind of UFA signing have they made that were marquee/superstar players. It just doesn’t happen.

I think I saw Anaheim had signed Selanne(though he’d played with them before) and Scott Neidermayer(wanted to play with his brother) aside from that they are comprised of either draft picks or traded players(their big name players). That’s similar to the Sharks. I did not have a chance to go looking through the Kings.

Perhaps that’d be a good blog for you Mike.

]]> By: Ivan M http://dudesonhockey.com/2009/06/30/the-draft-even-more-confusing-than-i-thought/#comment-4314 Ivan M Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:10:56 +0000 http://sharks.hockeyanalysis.com/?p=380#comment-4314 Everything has changed since DW was hired. Most of the roster is gone and is replaced by people he either traded, or signed or drafted. We have a whole new coaching staff. Hell, we even have a new logo. Meanwhile, Penguins rose up from the very bottom of the league and won the Cup (remember where they were back in 2003?). Carolina also won the Cup, and most importantly, so did Anaheim. How many more early playoff exits it'll take for ownership to realize he's the only thing that remains constant, year after year? I'd be shocked if he's still here next summer unless we make a major step forward next year in playoffs, and in my mind, this means nothing less than Stanley Cup final. Everything has changed since DW was hired. Most of the roster is gone and is replaced by people he either traded, or signed or drafted. We have a whole new coaching staff. Hell, we even have a new logo.

Meanwhile, Penguins rose up from the very bottom of the league and won the Cup (remember where they were back in 2003?). Carolina also won the Cup, and most importantly, so did Anaheim.

How many more early playoff exits it’ll take for ownership to realize he’s the only thing that remains constant, year after year?

I’d be shocked if he’s still here next summer unless we make a major step forward next year in playoffs, and in my mind, this means nothing less than Stanley Cup final.

]]> By: Jeremy http://dudesonhockey.com/2009/06/30/the-draft-even-more-confusing-than-i-thought/#comment-4313 Jeremy Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:03:52 +0000 http://sharks.hockeyanalysis.com/?p=380#comment-4313 Nice draft analysis. But it could be very skewed by the lack of salary cap. In the years you took, Detroit was able to disregard drafting to some extent because of the lack of a cap. And it could be that in a pre-cap world, drafting philosophies were different - i.e. always take the best available, whether your teams has that need or not. This might result in the draftee spending excessive time in the minors waiting for an opening. What I'm wondering is once you get to, say, the third round, is there any difference between that round and the sixth or seventh round as far as NHL-level success? Could a GM just stockpile 6th rounders by trading down his 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounders and have the same shot at hitting paydirt. Quantity over quality??? Nice draft analysis. But it could be very skewed by the lack of salary cap. In the years you took, Detroit was able to disregard drafting to some extent because of the lack of a cap. And it could be that in a pre-cap world, drafting philosophies were different – i.e. always take the best available, whether your teams has that need or not. This might result in the draftee spending excessive time in the minors waiting for an opening.

What I’m wondering is once you get to, say, the third round, is there any difference between that round and the sixth or seventh round as far as NHL-level success? Could a GM just stockpile 6th rounders by trading down his 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounders and have the same shot at hitting paydirt. Quantity over quality???

]]> By: Mike http://dudesonhockey.com/2009/06/30/the-draft-even-more-confusing-than-i-thought/#comment-4312 Mike Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:14:36 +0000 http://sharks.hockeyanalysis.com/?p=380#comment-4312 I have to disagree about Wilson- if the Sharks again have a high seed and lose in the first round, he could be on the block, but I'd say it's far from a sure thing. With guys like Bryan Murray, Darryl Sutter, David Poile, and Glen Sather still holding onto jobs, there might be a little more latitude for a guy that makes the playoff every year. I have to disagree about Wilson- if the Sharks again have a high seed and lose in the first round, he could be on the block, but I’d say it’s far from a sure thing. With guys like Bryan Murray, Darryl Sutter, David Poile, and Glen Sather still holding onto jobs, there might be a little more latitude for a guy that makes the playoff every year.

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