DOH 122 – Big Joe, Big Week
November 2nd, 2010, 8:39 am
It’s been a great week for Bay Area sports- the Giants win the World Series, and the Sharks win two games (against admittedly inferior opponents). The Dudes revel in the victories, and read some listener email.
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While New Jersey did get that garbage goal off the stanchion, Jumbo got one right back later in the second period (giving him his hat trick). So not only was it a goal you only see once every couple of years, we saw two in the same game.
Nitty joked after the game that he’d be reluctant to go behind the net in the future at the tank.
Dudes – you are being waaaaaaaay too hard on Vlasic. I’m bookmarking the 27-minute mark of this podcast so we can all have a good laugh about it down the road. Vlasic is expendable because he’s not a good fit with Wallin, and Wallin has looked better through 9 games? Can’t say I’m on board with that logic…
I agree, Patrick. Vlasic has been one of the top shutdown Dmen over the past two years in the entire league. Wallin likely won’t be in teal past this year, has an injury history and just scored his first goal in 80 plus games when it bounced off his skate.
For both Seto and Vlasic, I wonder if this isn’t a case where the coaches are screwing around with their games too much, ruining good players in the quest to make them great (or in Vlasic’s case, ruining a great player in the hopes to make him elite). Clowe is just as streaky as Seto, is somehow less physical despite being bigger, and is slower on D, yet he will never be “demoted” to a lower line and has even worn an “A” a few times. Marleau can get incredibly lazy backchecking sometimes. But if Seto so much as tries to stickhandle past a couple of guys, he is in the doghouse despite his moter going almost full tile every shift.
Same with Vlasic. Kid only gave up 1.6 goals every 60 minutes he was on the ice last year. That is incredible. But because he is pressured to contribute more on offense he takes poor shots from the point, which are about as obvious a mistake a Dman can make in the offensive zone. So he is chastised as “not developing.” I don’t think he has to develop much more to be considered a top defenseman in the league, if he isn’t one already.
Though to be fair, Vlasic has admittedly been awful the first 10 games. But through 10 games, Duncan Kieth was a -3 with no goals and 3 assists. He has picked it up recently back to his regular level, and I have no doubts Vlasic will pick it up as well.
Dudes…
Thnx for fielding my question. My first reaction to the Yandle rumors were exactly what yours were. I’m doubting that Phnx would trade him and especially to a division rival.
The only thing that gives me hope is that I read Phnx really wants wingers… So Seto was exactly what I was thinking too and our depth might allow us to make a superior bid than other teams might… If DW was willing to do that.
I like the comparison of Yandle with Giordano… I also think of Kurtis Foster too. A clear 2nd pairing offensive D man.
Doubt it happens though.
And.. GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have to join the chorus of comments, Vlasic has been playing poorly, but it is so damn early in the season. I hope that you guys realize how hyperbolic your reaction is. Also, is it possible that Vlasic and Wallin are just a bad match? What about a little juggling of the D-man rotation? Honestly, I still think that Vlasic pairs much better with Demers or Boyle. We know how the coaching staff loves to juggle the forward lines, so why not try it with the D to get some struggling guys jump started.
I love a good debate and I appreciate folks chiming in. For the Sharks sake, I hope Vlasic does figure it out – but his decline as a player has been noticeable dudes. I know it’s early, but no points and a -5 puts him in Paul Mara territory (no points and -3) .
He had a great year in McLellan’s first season – probably his best as a pro with 36 points and 21 of those coming on the PP and a +15. Last year he struggled at times and he just isn’t able to compete with the bigger forwards in the NHL right now. This year, the fact that he couldn’t clear the zone twice during that 5 on 3 last night sums up his struggles. He doesn’t play the body, he reaches like a blind man with his stick right now and his first pass coming out of his own end usually ends up as a turnover or puts the forward in a really awkward position.
As for juggling the D lines – Eric you might be on to something. Vlasic looked good playing with Demers last year when Blake got hurt. Let him loose with Boyle-lite and see what happens….because this partnership is working for Wallin but not Vlasic.
I hope I’m wrong dudes. I want to be wrong – but for a team that has Stanley Cup aspirations, when do you admit that he just isn’t good enough? So we can continue this conversation on the podcast next week (and hopefully Vlasic will be a +6 and has three points by then) – can everyone please compare Vlasic to another NHL player that plays a top four role on another team in the comment thread or in an email to questions@dudesonhockey.com? I think it makes for a good conversation.
Thanks for listening!
After my defense of Vlasic I was shaking my fist at the TV after those failed clears. “Darn you Vlasic, stop helping Doug’s argument!” The podcast words of “I don’t know if I can take another failed clearing attempt” were echoing loudly.
On another note, I liked the discussion of parallels between the Sharks and Giants. The parallel that worries me is that the Giants were carried by pitching, and they shut down a few really high-powered offenses along the way. The problem is that the Sharks ARE the high powered offense that gets shut down in the playoffs.
How about Josh Gorges? Both had similar ice time, similar roles, 6-1/200lbs. Vlasic played tougher competition last year, with better teammates, gave up .14 Goals fewer per 60 minutes, and pretty much blew him away in +/- per 60 minutes. Vlasic also gave up about a goal less per 60 minutes on the penalty kill last year (FYI, Boyle was pretty awesome on the PK last year). Josh Gorges is an RFA this year, already making 1.1mil, so he will likely see Vlasic money next year.
I’m one of those people who’ve been paying most of my attention to the Giants, so I admit I haven’t watched many Sharks games this year, but I was also pretty surprised to hear Vlasic get it so bad in this podcast. Vlasic is… Jeff Dunham? Wow. You really went there? Because I actually kind of winced just typing that.
Two games for Big Joe. Such a joke.
Wow, I am against any type of headshots, but as Evilducks will surely point out as well, this hit doesn’t really fall into the wording of the rule. I would want to appeal this if I were Thornton, not that it will matter.
Big Joe, Big Hit
It’s been a surprising week for Bay Area sports- the Giants win the World Series, and Joe Thornton gets suspended two games (against an admittedly shorter player).