DOH 152- The Hockey Gods Hate Us
May 25th, 2011, 7:17 pm
Another year, another disappointing loss. The Sharks drop game 5 to Vancouver on some crazy plays, and the Dudes try to suss out if it was a Sharks choke job or a Vancouver domination. And while there’s plenty of time yet, Mike and Doug try to call what philosophy the Sharks should contemplate.
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Tags: San Jose Sharks, Vancouver Canucks
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If it makes you feel any better, I don’t understand why Demers didn’t play either, especially when he declared himself good to go not only prior to Game 6, but before Game 2 I remember him saying something similar. While not the reason the Sharks lost, I think having Demers back would have helped the Sharks match up against Vancouver’s forward lines better, as well as being a little more even with the Vancouver defense.
And to answer the poll question: I would say a retool, specifically on defense. I think we should re-sign White and keep the defense relatively the same, and sign another guy with the space cleared by Huskins and Wallin coming off the books.
I remember the Flames fans being pretty rabbid when the Sharks played them in the WCF in 2004. The cowboy hats, flag dresses, etc. They were there. Remember all the cowgirls? It might not have been quite as much as the Canucks fans this year, but they were bigger in numbers than the Wings fans in the games I went to this year(1 & 5). That’s at least how I remember it.
As far as this being the worst way to lose… would it not have been worse to lose to Detroit in that game 7? A series loss after leading 3-0 to a rival like Detroit is something that would have stung for a hell of a lot longer than this will. I would have never let you guys hear the end of it. Ever. You also don’t have to go on a Canucks podcast and humiliate yourself and your team while the hosts talk about their next matchup. Boom. How’s that for perspective?
That would have sucked. No doubt. I’ll admit it might have been worse. But at the end of the day I would have admitted defeat and that Detroit was the better team. They showed a lot if heart and dictated their will on the series.
The difference for me is I really don’t think Vancouver deserved this. I know many will disagree, but I still think SJ was the better team over those five games and that Vancouver won due to bad bounces, bad calls, and dumb luck. That’s do hard to swallow when we were that close to the SCF.
Basically it was laces out…
I’m going to have to agree with you Tom. You can’t control the bounces or the calls, but for long stretches of almost every game in the series, the Sharks were controlling the play. Look at the shot differential in the last 2-3 games, I’m sure there a huge difference in puck possession time too. They dominated everything but goals.
I think Vancouver is a very deserving SC finalist. They were the best team in the regular season, feature the best forward duo and deepest defensive core, and IMO the most talented goalie in the NHL. Of course, that doesn’t mean I don’t think the Sharks were MORE deserving 🙂
I did mean it was the worst possible way to lose game 5, and maybe the series. In my mind, dropping game 7 to Detroit would have been much, much worse.
Agreed, I think that if the Sharks had lost game 7 in Detroit that poll would say blow it up and not retool. We are all angry and annoyed but for the most part I have not read anything in consensus about the team needing to now be blown up which would have definitely happened after the Wings series.
Yeah. I still haven’t listened to the podcast yet, but I’m not disappointed with the way the Sharks performed. Individuals yes, but as a whole team no. It was far from a choke.
Obviously I don’t want DW to overhaul this team. But honestly, I’m not sure a team CAN get much better. Apart from some miracle trade/sign for Shea Weber or Nick Lidstrom, who else that’s gonna be available can make this team better?
I gotcha. In that case, yeah, you’re right. “Of course they’d lose like this” says it all.
I actually think that the puck went off the netting, so I think it should have been out of play. The lack of a call reminds me of the goal scored from the crease by Dallas in overtime of the Stanley Cup Finals, before teams were allowed to score from the crease, but the goal was counted and they won the cup anyways… So I think two bad calls lost the game for the Sharks. The icing call, which I thought was awful and the call on that last goal or whatever happened. And I think the Sharks just need to retool because overall as a team we saw what great things they were capable of. And a lot of the players who are already good will improve, like Couture. I’m just glad that, even though they lost, they didn’t play a totally crappy game like some of the other games in the playoffs. There was a lot of effort and I applaud Jumbo for all his efforts he showed a lot of heart. I agree that he was the best player in the playoffs.
As far as the poll question, I think retool the offensive strategy. I believe the Sharks have the talent to play the way the Canucks do offensively, but with 3 lines instead of 1. Every time Drew Remenda says something to the effect of “stop trying to make the pretty play and shoot it on goal” Randy Hahn should be contractually obligated to say “Canucks.”
Playing with Capgeek, I don’t think the Sharks can keep Ian White if he wants any more than the $3mil/yr he is making now. And considering the Sharks have an Ian White-lite in Justin Braun, but no real forward help coming, I think Seto is a higher priority.
Doug Murray, 1 point in 18 games despite riding shotgun with Boyle, -7 in the playoffs, his big hit on Kesler in overtime nearly left a 2v1, thoroughly exposed by the Sedins… that’s my Tom Pederson.
Although games 4 and 5 slipped away through a manic 2 minutes and a couple of bad breaks, I can’t help thinking the series was lost in periods 3 or games 1 and 2… I think we needed to split that series in Vancouver, which would have meant there was room to ride the odd bad breaks, so I think the reasons for those periods need to be looked at.
Was it the hangover from game 7 and jumping straight on a plane? I might understand for 1 of those losses, but not both. I can’t help thinking there was a little of the “happy to be here” mentaility and a bit of the 3rd period mental fragility seen all year.
It would have been interesting to see how this series would have gone had we been coming off Nashville and Vancouver had been coming off Detroit.
Still we tried the No 1 seed and how did that work out for us? I guess well done to the Canucks & I hope they stuff the Eastern Conference champs to highlight the gulf between the conferences!
detroit vs san jose is an entirely different animal. sharks fans would have been jumping head first from skyscrapers in droves if they’d blown that one.
for the off-season…
i don’t see a big blow up happening either.
i can’t see TMac and crew being shown the door. that would come across as too drastic a move for a team that’s made it to the WCF two years running under the same staff. if he does go, the excuse would be that he didn’t have enough in his toolbox to get this team to the next level.
definitely need to address issues at the blueline. the puck-moving d aren’t as strong on the body as the dfd. dfd aren’t as quick or as punishing as they should be.
upgrades and or improvement in middle-tier players should be made as well, but that can come as late as the trade deadline if the Sharks are still in the hunt at that point.
in closing, i’d like to highlight one additional point…
heatley was sandwiched between pavelski and clowe on the stat sheet this year, but he’s earning (roughly) the combined salaries of both of these players every season until 2014-15.
i’m not saying anything, i’m just sayin’.
Heatley now revealed to have been playing with a broken hand. That probably explains at least part of his decrease in production in the postseason.
i just saw that on WTC after my post.
i think the list of injuries only reinforces the fact that no major moves will be made in the off-season.
just makes you wonder what could have been if these guys were all healthy.
After the Sharks lost game 5 to Detroit I told my wife that the Sharks chance of winning a cup just went way down. Even though Vancouver did this too, having av6 and 7 game series in the first two rounds usually isn’t good for your long term chances at a cup.
While I still think not only did SJ play well enough to win the whole thing and to beat Vancouver, putting Detroit and LA away early would have dramatically helped their cause. Early miscues and allowing teams hope that dragged out their series looks like it really hurt the Sharks in the long run. I have to believe they would have been healthier for Vancouver.
i concur.
Hold your hats! Wall of text ahead. 😛
Before I gonna talk about what I think about the poll, I just wanna state some facts.
Salery cap next season: $59 400 000
14 contracts signed next season for: $51 825 000
Left to deal with: $7 575 000
This years salary for the players not yet signed for the next season: 13 474 995
So…
If everyone would be resigned and we would have the same team as this year we would be $5 899 995 over the cap. This means that some players have to go, and some players are easy to let go, for example I’ve heard that Huskins will be playing in the colombian league next season. But some of the players not signed for the next season are players we obviously need to be as good as this year.
Here is where I will go from fact to what I want. 🙂
Resignings that I feel is really needed for the next season is Setoguchi and White. Seto have proved during the last part of the season that he can play well, and he is good value for money. White is one of the best D we have right now and without him we are back to where we were in in the beginning of this season. If we assume they would get what they did last season they would get $4 799 995 combined. That leave us with $2 775 005 to spare and only 16 spots accounted for.
The reason I am pulling up all these numbers up is that I think that no matter what we want here, we have to realize that we wont have the same team as this year and there will need to be some “retooling” going on. The “Stand pat” option is not really an option.
So what can be done?
As I see it there are only 2 (maybe 3) overpayed players in the team at the moment. These are:
Heatly $7 500 000 (Most payed on the whole team)
Niemi $3 800 000
And maybe Vlasic $3 100 000 (Not saying he is bad, just overpayed)
My first sugestion would be to dump Heatly if that would be possible. But since he got NMC, I dont think that would be happening unless he would want to move.
So.. Here comes my sugestion: Trade Niemi! He was no 16 in both SV% and GAA of the goalies in the playoffs. In his 18 playoff games, he even had worse stats then Greiss had in his 20 NHL games played.
To long, didnt read: Trade Niemi and resign White and Seto.
Vlassic is the best shutdown d-man on the team and is crucial to the success of this team in my opinion. I don’t think he’s overpaid in the least, you don’t just pay for points.
Heater is overpaid, and the broken hand exacerbated the problem. The thing is, he has an NMC and really large contract that would be hard to move if we had options. We don’t, he’s not going anywhere.
Aside from the LA series, I though Nemo played really well against both Detroit and Vancouver. It’s hard to lay the 3 5on3’s on him, he also faced the most PK shots in the entire playoffs. His 5on5 stats were fine. He got hung out to dry, and his stats are a direct result of it. I actually really grew to like Nemo in nets and want to keep him.
Move our 2M backup if you want to clear a little space.
To think, I thought Nitty was going to be our goalie and hated the Nemo signing and now look at me.
Just finished listening… Doug – Were your comments on Heater being “Piss poor inexusably lame” made before you knew about the broken hand?
I m with you on vlasic beeing one of our important players, so i dont think he should be moved, but I still think he is abit high payed.
I think nitty is the best goalie and I think the playoffs proved that niemi isnt what we were hoping for. I think the horse people were riding was “Well he have never lost a playoff series”, but thats no longer true.
What I want of a goalie is to be there and step up when his team is playing bad and i dont think nemo did that.
I am sure that nemo wont be traded since the coach seem to like him , but I think that would be the best thing to do.. 2M wouldnt be enough btw if nitty were to be traded. Someone else would have to go also, and I cant see who that would be.
I mean for each player leaving we should expect another player stepping in with about 1M cap.
I think what it comes down to in reality is chosing between Niemi or Pavelski going. I dont want pavs to get traded, so for me the choise is quite simple.
I would hate to see either pavs or Nemo shown the door. When Niemi was signed I’ll be the first to admit I was pissed because I felt that in the finals the Hawks won the cup in spite of Niemi and not because of Niemi although he was solid vs. us, a rant for another day.
I still think his rebound control is horrendous but aside from that he has grown on me and there was a lot of games where I looked at the goals and thought well F!@# that wasn’t Nemo’s fault where the F!@# is the coverage!
Nitty is far to streaky to be the guy, that and the sad reality is with that extension just signed Nemo is going to be in teal unless someone can unseat him next season (Stalock?). I sadly think if someone won’t be back its Setoguchi also very streaky.
While I don’t think Nemo was awful in the playoffs, he wasn’t good, either. His 5v5 save % was only like .912, for most “good” goaltenders it is in the high .920’s 5v5 if I remember correctly. And, well, he was awful on the PK. If he was even average in the PK, that might have changed one game, which would have meant more rest or a G6.
Still, I too grew to like Nemo. He is a little overpaid, but not by much. I don’t think he is a problem.
I believe Vlasic is incredibly underpaid. I think Doug Murray is more overpaid than Vlasic. Vlasic-Demers is possibly the best dollar for dollar defensive combo in the league.
I really hope the FO sees the value that Wellwood brought, but gets it back at a good price. He had the highest +/- in the playoffs (I know, weak stat), and created a legit scoring 3rd line. I would love to see what Heatley and Wellwood could do on a line together long term.
Seto is one of the players that is cheapest/point on the team.
His salary was 14th in the team. (About the same as Huskins)
For that price I would take him any day.
I think that if you can get Seto back at his current rate of pay than I think its a great deal. But I thought he was going to get a decent pay day last year and although he only saw a slight increase in production I don’t know if he takes another 1 year deal at 2 million a year or less or if hes going to look for term which should come with a better pay check.
I’m not advocating for Seto to go, I just think in a cap crunch it would not shock me for him to be the odd man out. But we need to see of course what the new cap number is and if the Sharks are going to continue to spend to it.
i only have one thing to say about this post…
huskins-biden 2012
….okay, a couple of things to say about the post:
Eager, Nichol, Mayers, Wellwood, White, Wallin and Huskins all UFAs next year. Who stays, who goes? And….who could potentially replace them?
…or, is that the next podcast?
You guys are starting with a faulty premise: that next year’s cap is $59.4M. They haven’t set next year’s cap yet, but Bob McKenzie (or maybe Darren Dreger) said it’s expected to land between $62M and $63M.
Ah.. That changes things ALOT!
The organization better spend to the cap because my season tickets went up 20% from last year!!! That’s the biggest increase by FAR since I’ve been a STH’er. I’m really surprised too in this economy. My cheap seats are becoming not-so-cheap!
Don’t forget to do the last round in playoffschallenge:
http://playoffschallenge.nhl.com
🙂