DOH 155 – Bruin Stanley Cup and Sharks Defense
June 16th, 2011, 8:08 am
The Dudes recap the Stanley Cup finals and congratulate the Boston Bruins. But this week’s main task is to examine the current state of the Sharks’ defense and goaltending, and try to guess what will happen during the summer. Of course Mike and Doug have to bid a fond farewell to Niclas Wallin, who decided to play in Sweden next year.
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Guys I just want to follow up on the comments regarding Leino and the third line. Thanks for taking the question btw… But I’m gonna push back a bit on this one because I think it makes for a good discussion.
First off I want to disagree with an assertion you both made. It was that having 3 scoring lines “didn’t work”. How exactly are you defining that? Because I’d say it worked quite nicely – bringing us yet again a trip to the conference finals. Having that depth in the top 9 seemed the very thing that DW was doing from day one and something you both praised… So how did that not work? It was a strength all season long.
Now I agree, the third line kinda disappeared during the conference finals – the main reason why I think it needs to be tweaked. I don’t see Mitchell and Wellwood as the answer. Leino is a guy I think could fill that role. Leino has a bit of an edge to him and I think is correctly suited as a scoring third line player and actually much much different from Setoguchi. I explained why I thought paying him could be warranted.
Whether or not you like that individual player, I’m confused by the reversal. It seems that you both are now advocating for a more traditional checking/pesty type of third line similar to those on teams like Vancouver. If that’s the case, I’d say that’s a pretty major shift in philosophy from what you guys have thought would be successful for SJ.
And whether you two are right or wrong, I really doubt DW is thinking that. I guess this summer’s moves will show us for sure what he’s actually thinking. But, It’s been clear to me that many teams success in the playoffs has come from scoring depth in the top three lines. And that DW has been trying to engineer that type of team for some time.
So again, I’m advocating for retooling the third line and making it an even more dangerous scoring threat.
What are you two thinking the third line needs to become and if so – why the shift?
This is a great question, and my reply is long and complicated. I will create a post for it tomorrow.
I’m pretty much on board with you, Tom. The dudes brought up Marchand and Bergeron, those guys may have had a little sandpaper to them, but they were effective because of their skill and scoring. Raffi Torres and the Nucks 3rd line was a non-factor, unable to carry the team when the top players were struggling (unlike Boston, or the Sharks in the 1st round). And I believe their effectiveness was heavily overrated against the Sharks, it was the Sedins that beat the Sharks, hands down.
I will disagree that Wellwood is not the answer. I can only imagine what numbers that 3rd line would put up with Leino instead of Mitchell on the wing. Mitchell is a solid player, a guy that should get some more PK time, but is ultimately on the wrong team. Him and Sammy Phalsson would make a great shutdown duo, but the email was correct. TMac doesn’t use checking lines, he matches strength for strength. A Wellwood-Pavelski-Lieno line would put up 150 points between them. That is a good 2nd line, let alone 3rd line.
Honestly, I’d rather have that 3rd line and a Braun/Doherty/Petrecki/scrap heap veteran 3rd pairing than White and Sammy Phalsson. But I like 5-3 games…
I see your point here about Wellwood. I like him also but in my original post about the third line and Leino in the last blog entry, I thought, as Doug stated in the last podcast, that Wellwood might end up being over priced.
For the right price I’d be fine with Wellwood coming back. My contention was for the price it could be beneficial to get Leino if the price isn’t much higher.
But either way I agree mostly with you too about the D. Manly because I don’t see a big change on the blue line coming. Although I think there is cap scape to sign White as well.
True true.
50 min, 46 min podcasts.. Still im sad when its over. =/ You guys rock and I could really go on listening to your podcast for an hour each time.. 🙂
On the topic of goalies. I really dont think the sharks should get rid of nitty after the way niemi played last season. During the time before Nitty got injured, he had better stats then Niemi and after that he really didnt get a chanse. I’d say go let them work it out as they did in the start of last season. Now both of them are familiar with the team and they should both be able to perform. So in my opinion they should battle it out during the first 60 games or so and let the best man win for the playoffs.
Has anybody heard anything about Stalock? Is he even gonna be healthy? The Sharks might not have another real option.
Were you guys podcasting from downtown Vancouver last night? I heard sirens in the background around the 24-minute mark.
Sup dudes. Just thought I should mention that Mike Moore has a 1 way contract in the 11-12 season. Feel free to look it up on capgeek. That being said, as much as I like Ian White, I do not think that he fits in if we want to sign or trade for a number 2 d-man. I have listened to and read a lot of podcasts and blogs and not one of them has mentioned Moore. How do you think this changes the Sharks lineup?
Justin,
As it turns out, Cam McIntyre has a 1-way deal too, but as with Moore, their salaries do not count against the cap when they are in the minors. I can’t imagine the Sharks would make a roster decision based on whether they have to pay Moore and McIntyre $500k or $600k in the minors vs $100k. There is a long and storied history of many teams putting large contracts in the minors (Wade Redden, Kyle McLaren) in order to avoid a cap hit. The Sharks would be out a little more cash overall, but them’s the breaks.
I just figured that since Moore has the 1 way deal that he would be up with the big club rather than left in the minors.
Sorry Justin, by this reasoning, Cristobal Huet will be on the opening day Blackhawks roster because he has a one-way deal. That ain’t happening.
If you look around capgeek, several other teams have one-way contracts in the minors, including the Flyers, Canucks, and Wings. It’s not common, but it’s not unheard of either.
I would imagine that Moore’s contract (and age) would make him more likely to be the extra skater the Sharks carry around in case of injury. BUt it looks like Moore never took that one extra step forward that he needed to make.
Well ya I know why they are in the minors, cuz the teams want to bury their contracts. I was not trying to say that I thought all 1 way contracts stayed in the NHL, just thought that the Sharks would have Moore up in San Jose to give him some time at the higher level.
^^^ Response to Mike.