DOH 203 – Canada and Burish Day
July 3rd, 2012, 7:42 am
The Dudes break down one of the most eventful days of the hockey year- the first day of free agency. The Sharks signed Adam Burish to a 4-year deal, but seemingly parted ways with Daniel Winnik. Mike and Doug talk about that, and many of the other signings that happened on July 1, many of them head-scratchers.
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Dudes, you are being completely unfair going on and on about Marleau. Not saying he’s a bad-ass, but is he any softer than Couture? Do Pavelski and Havlet play some super-physical game I’ve been missing? Is your man crush Dan Boyle (or Braun or Demers) throwing his body around on the back end?
This whole team underachieved last year. Ryane Clowe plays with an edge and says the right stuff to the media… so evidently that earns him a pass for a 45-point campaign? I haven’t heard an ill word about his performance from anyone.
The constant scapegoating and fingerpointing is getting really tiresome.
Just finished the rest of the pod. Doug, you were being such a turd this episode! I’m sure Parise and Suter both thought about teams/destinations, but they couldn’t talk to GMs/coaches/etc., they didn’t know the terms of the contracts, and there was no chance to negotiate anything. It’s only been like 54 hours!
“Hi I’m Mike, that’s Turd.”
I’m gonna side with Doug on this one. I think it’s annoying that they are taking forever. It’s holding up other teams and just enables this whole mess of long term contracts.
Nothing irritates me more though than wathcing every NHL media reporter defend overpayed hockey players. I don’t have a lot of sympathy for a guy who’s about to make 80 million dollars at the flick of a pen.
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But Patrick,
I’m with you on the Marleau stuff… I can’t defend the guy any more, but there were a lot of passsengers last year (to use a T-mac quote) and I think there is plently of blame to go around.
Couldn’t agree more:
Parise said he has been looking at where he wants to live, where he’ll be happy and what team he wants to play for since hitting the market Sunday. And, he’s looking forward to being done with the process.
“It’s been a stressful couple days,” Parise told the Star Tribune.
I get that, but this is a team sport – it goes with the job that these players get traded to the other end of the country at the drop of a hat & have to cope with that.
What Parise is doing is saying to all the other players in the League that “I am better than you and I’m going to rub it in your faces that I have a choice and you don’t” and “I am not a team player”.
Still, it’s him that’s going to have to fit into a new team and cope with playing this year with a big target on his back: If there’s any karma out there, he may regret this attitude…
The Dudes were dead right. Marleau wasn’t just passive. He was invisible.
I get the anger, really I do. Last I checked though he scored 30 goals last year. For the sixth time in the last seven seasons.
So could you define what you mean by “invisible”?
Playoffs: 0 points, 0 shots on goal, -1.
3 goals over the final 27 games of the year.
$6.9 million / year.
Correction … 4 goals over the final 27 games.
I little bit of reality applied to small sample size when it comes to scoring and Patrick Marleau:
http://www.fearthefin.com/2012/7/10/3128017/expectation-vs-reality-a-look-at-an-inaccurate-label-patrick-marleau
You’ll have to wait for Doan at least until July 8:
“However, Doan isn’t itching to leave the organization and “wants to give the Coyotes every opportunity” to sign him, his agent, Terry Bross, told TFP Saturday evening.
Speaking to TFP Editor-in-Chief David Pagnotta, Bross indicated the earliest his client would sign a contract — with the Coyotes or another club — would presumably be July 8, the date in which the Coyotes will have a clearer picture as to whether or not they’ll be staying in Arizona.”
But I would do a happy-skippy dance if we could interest him. You have to bet 28 other teams would be interested though, hoping our proximity/real-ness/Joe make us a consideration for him.
You know where I keep thinking Doan might end up – Colorado. I agree with you dudes that Colorado has done well this off season. Doan as a mentor and leader on that squad would good a good fit. Plus, other than LA it’s still pretty close to the desert.
Stars doing great too honestly.
/winnik incurred some bone-headed penalties – at pivotal moments – ‘coming down the stretch’.
He may have scored some pivotal goals, as well; but, those aforementioned penalties were “Steve Bernier” bad (IMO).
I. AM. RELIEVED — /winnik will be gone. Who knows: Perhaps COL will welcome him back. McGinn never blossomed into the player we were all WAITING for him to become. Good riddance to him, too.
Burish is a good signing. Doan would look great in teal.
Patrick Marleau is the *HEART* of Team Teal. Not to mention — a CONSISTENT CONTRIBUTOR. Patty works his butt off. I don’t know what ppl keep whining about.
It’s a TEAM game, folks.
`
Some rumores floating around right now are thar Toronto REALLY wants Marleau BAD. They need a top-line center and have been more or less inactive on the UFA market because no one really fits the bill, so they’re looking for a good trade… San Jose is interested, but doesn’t like who Toronto is offering (Kadri + picks), so ball is in their court to make a counter-offer.
Another SJS rumor is about the Habs being interested in Havlat. Although right now SJS isn’t liking what the Habs are offering (Bourque + Diaz or Weber), though apparently have made a counter offer for Eller or Leblanc + Diaz or Weber.
These rumors have come from a twitter account hockeyy_insiderr who is wrong 95% of the time and most of the hockey media believes is a phony. They say the same thing about Eklund, and I basically feel the same about both. They’re phonies 99% of the time until they have that one rumor that turns out to be right and you can’t find anywhere it appeared first. This hockeyy_insiderr did have the Stars in talks with Jagr before most anyone else that I saw, and one other signing I believe. He also had Parise going to the Penguins #confirmed a couple days ago, and now is trying to save face it appears by tweeting stuff like “Sidney Crosby is super duper mad at Parise, will never talk to him again, believes he lied to him and the Penguins organization, broke promise.”
So, I don’t know what to make of his rumors, but I wouldn’t be so sure they are true. Would Burke really be putting on such a push to land a player when in reality there is almost no chance Marleau would waive his NMC to go to Toronto anyway? Unless there’s something we don’t know…
The Havlat to Montreal rumors, where Montreal would like to trade Bourque for him, and Doug Wilson would prefer cap space and prospects, seem to make more sense. If you don’t unload Havlat now while you still can, his contract has a very high chance of being an albatross in a few years given how injury prone he is. And given how Doug Wilson basically cleared Heatley’s 7.5 million cap hit to take on Havlat’s 5 million cap hit, maybe the way he justifies trying to add another big cap hit like Nash’s to the roster is that, if he gets rid of Havlat first, it would basically just be like going back to the Heatley days, except it’s 7.8 vs 7.5 in that slot, basically the same, not to mention the cap ceiling is higher and Nash is way better.
But take any rumors from that guy with a grain of salt
Hi. Yeah, I can understand why you wouldn’t want to take anything coming from these rumors too seriously, however I don’t think that statistic of hockeyy_insiderr being wrong %95 percent of the time is very accurate in it’s own right.
He’s made several calls that were on target, and his reporting about the Parise->Pens Suter->Detroit situation was, very likely, exactly what was going on. Parise having a verbal commitment with the Pens before he jumped ship and signed with the Wild. He can only report it as he sees it, and although he might have taken that “verbal agreement” a bit too seriously, it’s also likely his source was actually in the Pens camp and his sources were also being optimistic about the situation.
For me, it’s interesting to see the story unfold. Not all the deals are going to go through, but it’s fun to hear about the speculation and potential trades that are happening.
I don’t see any evidence from anybody anywhere that the Parise to Pens and Suter to Wings rumors were ever accurate.
Please provide actual evidence.
Are you serious?! There are direct quotes from their GM’s.
Pierre LeBrun via twitter – “@Real_ESPNLeBrun: Just chatted with Ken Holland, “We feel good about our offers to both Suter and Parise. They were very competitive. Now we move on.”
And official Red Wings twitter feed: – “UPDATE: Wings GM Ken Holland: “I’m told we’re a consideration for both (Suter and Parise).”
And…
Kukla’s corner twitter: – “@kuklaskorner: From all the talk today on TSN and media reports, looks like the Penguins are in the lead for Zach Parise.”
Penguins official twitter: – “@pghpenguins: #Pens GM Shero: We thought Parise would be a really good fit here in Pittsburgh short-term and long-term”
That confirms what everybody knows.
The Penguins and Red Wings were both interested. What I’m saying there is 0 evidence of is any agreement with any team involving promises made to either the Penguins or Red Wings.
The guy’s twitter feed is hilarious, pretty much every possible team in need of a D is in on every available D. When that available D eventually signs, low and behold he guessed it!… Of course he did, he also guess wrong far more.
It’s cold reading applied to hockey.
If you really care that much, and you’d taken the time to check out how much of his announcements were the first to go out, you’d see he has a pretty high success rate.
Just because he prematurely confirmed the Suter and Parise moves to the wrong teams doesn’t mean he’s completely baseless.
Like I said though, I enjoy the stories unfolding, and I am fully aware we are in the realm of rumors and unconfirmed possibilities… that’s what you get when you thirst for news before news is news.
I actually think it’s more ridiculous for people to get so up-in-arms trying to call him out as a fraud just because he’s not always right. If you wanted always right you shouldn’t be looking for nhl insider gossip and just wait for nhl.com to announce the signings and trades.
I follow him for a good laugh.
As I pointed out on twitter, nobody could even figure out what RFA’s the Sharks had qualified until the day after the deadline. Now some anonymous coward on twitter wants to say he’s got the inside scoop on potential trade offers from the Sharks? Not buying it.
Again, I have gone back and read his twitter feed and looked at his “pretty high success rate”. It’s atrocious, and if you had any doubt, you can look at the stories coming out from reputable reporters on the Wild signings and see that nothing he said fits in the actual timeline of events. Those stories have sources that include GM’s, agents and players all involved in the actual signing.
He did what all cold readers do, and went for they home run. He picked the absolute most likely destinations for both players and swung. If he was right it would have been like christmas for him, now that he’s wrong he writes it off as they broke their agreement and everybody that desperately wants to believe does.
I go to reputable sources for information. Pollak mentioned there would be news Monday from the Sharks and that it was probably coaching related… stunner, it was.
Dreger is pretty reliable, as is Russo, McKenzie, etc. You know the thing that makes me more apt to trust them? They have names.
You guys are nuts. So if Parise and Suter are selfish prima donnas for waiting 3 days to sign a 10 year contract, what does that make Shane Doan for waiting (at least) 9 days to sign a 1-2 year contract? Has Winnik signed yet? We really dodged a bullet there… Wouldn’t want that me-first jerk in teal.
Well Doan stated clearly from day one he wasn’t going to decide until the 8th. That’s the mature way to do things.
Parise and Suter have had longer than three…HOLY FUCK MINNESOTA!?! WHY?
WOW! This is crazy! I’m in shock. With the teams that were lining up for their services I’m flabergasted that they both picked the Wild. I wonder if people in Detroit are walking down to the river with bricks and rope. I thought for sure the Wings would get one of them. Going to be a very interesting trade market now… and that also means the Sharks are going to over pay or stand pat.
First let me say quickly that I don’t think guys that are about to sign a contract for 10 years of their lives are bad dudes because of it.
On the topic of Doan though… really. The guy is waiting to see if the Glendale lease agreement is going to a public referendum that would probably kill the deal just by the fact that its going drag it out until sometime after the next season would start and I don’t know if the City of Glendale is going to pony up the cash to keep them there another year. Doan has been nothing but a trooper through that entire mess and shown nothing but class but if the fiasco is to continue or they get up rooted like the Trashers/Jets did I don’t blame him for wanting to have his own say in where he is going. Of course if the deal is good hes going to want to stay in Glendale with the team… your right the guy is a total jerk.
I appreciate that I may have missed some sarcasm in your post.
And I would add that Doan has kids and an established family. That’s much different than guys their twenties. I know Parise has a fiancé.
Doan was upfront about what he was doing and is demonstrating he doesn’t want to be a problem.
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The more this sets in with Suter and Parise… man there is no way they can ever live up to those deals! It’s Gomez and Drury 2.0.
I thought it was pretty clear I was being facetious about Doan. I have no problem at all with him, but likewise don’t understand the anger toward S&P.
I take longer than four days to pick out a new mattress, or decide where to stay on vacation. Is it really that much to ask for a 13 year decision? Both guys spent all of last year playing hard for their current teams, and avoided making their free agency a focus or distraction. If they’d gone Dwight Howard or Carmelo I’d understand, but this is absurd.
Actually Patrick I’m with you on this, I think this is kinda media driven frustration because honestly there was not a whole lot of news to talk about and they have to fill up 3 hours worth of TV even though July first and even the trade deadline for that matter gets more and more boring every year. Of course everyone is excited to see who goes where but since we are used to having information on demand we want news before it happens and when they don’t sign right away and we are not entertained we get all angsty about it. I don’t agree with it and don’t understand it at all. Its not like they had a one hour special on TSN talked about nothing for an hour before saying they were going to take their talents to Minnesota.
I’m glad you mentioned Ward in the same breath as Winnik.
Ward . . . totally SCREWED his Caps (by way of taking a bad penalty) in their 2nd Rnd Series against NYR.
IF any0ne missed it . . . just ask a CAPS . . . or a rangers fan. They’ll likely know the exact moment to which I am referring.
IT WOULD BE AWARD-WINNINGLY STUPID — TO TRADE “NEMO”.
Gm 5, btw. Washington was – I believe – ‘a minute & change’ from securing victory, and Ward took an *idiotic* penalty. Which – of course – NYR scored on the ensuing PP & sent the game to OT . . . where – PREDICTABLY – they beat Holtby for the game-winner.
It wasn’t ‘a phantom call’, either. Ward committed the foul.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztu6tvi0ExU
I want this guy on our team.
Doan makes the same points which I’ve been professing for years: Officials (across? the sports spectrum) **need to be held accountable – when they do a sh!tty job***.
Of course . . . that will never happen. Not **REALLY** — b/c it would make the fixing of games — slightly more difficult. Only ‘slightly’ — but, still . . . they just as soon keep things ‘AS IS’.
I know you’re trying to emphasize words, but it makes it unreadable. English survived a long time with standard punctuation, perhaps try that?
Thanks Tom.
I hadn’t seen that clip. But I LOVE that kind of controlled emotion from a captain. Now, more than ever, Shane Doan has my respect.
Agreed. Lets sign this guy!