DOH 271 – Postmortem
May 13th, 2014, 10:01 pm
The Dudes react to the worst playoff loss in Sharks history with two weeks’ worth of perspective. It ain’t pretty.
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: RSS
Tags: San Jose Sharks
Loading ...
I seriously disagree with trading Marleau. I’m historically not a Marleau fanboy, I think he’s a great hockey player but have other favorites on the team, that aside – Marleau had 7 points in 7 playoff games this year, and was very visible all the way up until the end. It sounds more like you guys are jumping on the “Marleau has no heart” bandwagon and disregarding the stats.
I do, sadly, agree about Thornton though. he is one of my favorites during the regular season, but during the playoffs I have started to find him very frustrating to watch. He’s still a great hockey player, and I think we could get a good return on him. — To Minnesota for Coyle? 🙂 (that would be hilarious)
As for signing the two, I think it was a great move, we showed that we believe in them still and want them to succeed with us. However, considering that isn’t how things panned out during the first round, we still have their rights and are able to get something in return for them (either during the draft or over the summer), rather than just letting them walk where we would get a total of zero. From what I’ve seen, NTC’s have wiggle room.
Just my $.02, I am eagerly awaiting to see what happens this summer.
-Nick
Bay Area native living in Prague, CZ
Nick is correct on Marleau. You’re talking about a guy who was a PPG in the playoffs despite matching up against Kopitar and Doughty the whole time. Even Mike Babcock and Team Canada think Patty is clutch. Trading him is the ultimate PR move that only hurts the team.
Thornton . . . I think if Sharks fans are honest he is the worst #1 center of the top dogs (Chi, LA, Boston, Pitt, Anaheim). Which to me doesn’t mean you trade him, it means having 3rd and 4th lines not filled with Mike Brown and Andrew Desjardins is paramount. Still, I didn’t see any surfer dude mentality after the G7 loss, he looked more crushed than Dan Boyle.
And Pavs… I hate to say it, because I love the guy, but now is the perfect time to trade him. He is almost 30 years old, hist 41 goals are almost completely the product of playing with Jumbo and being moved net-front on the #1 PP unit, and he is apparently not capable of outplaying Jarret Stoll in a 3rd line role. Shea Weber is a pipe dream, but Dustin Bufylgin AND Andrew Ladd for just Pavs and maybe a 2nd? I can see the headlines in Winnipeg: “Jest acquire 41 goal scorer and pick for guy without a position and role player.” Not to mention no one disappeared more than Pavelski (except maybe Couture) in G4-7. Pavelski has been much more of a problem than Marleau over the past couple of playoffs, Sharks fans are much too easy on him.
Let’s face it! EVERYBODY disappeared games 4-7, so no one should be off the table. I’m not surprised by the keeping of Todd and Dougie, after all this is Platner’s first year as having a big say in the team.maybe next year when an equally disgraceful exit happens it will be a different story for coaching and management.
Talk about how great Patty and Joe are and how they get us into the playoffs every year, but aside from Wilson, these two are the common denominators in 10 years of playoff disappointment. Who knows if they are the exact cause, but there is SOMETHING truly WRONG with this franchise. They do NOT know how to win and for that you need to point to team leadership. one of these 2 MUST go, but like aesthetes foot, it wont be easy to get rid of them.
Let me point out one other issue that i see, and god knows this one is REALLY hard to change. The media in the bay area is WAY too soft on these guys! David Pollak’s stories are readable, but really all they do is rehash the game from the night before. I watched the game, i want some inside info and some sting and call outs when the team preforms poorly. Mark Purdy bites a little harder, but if i read “our beloved Los Tiburones” one more time, i’m gonna puke. Local sports talk radio SUCKS when it comes to anything related to hockey. This team needs a fire stoked under them all season long by the fans, but since they really have no voice to speak of, the media need to take up that torch and trash them when they suck.
If something major doesn’t happen with this roster, expect the same thing next year, and the year after that, and the year after that.
I’m holding my tongue somewhat right now bc I’m being fair and giving DW opportunity to make the moves most everyone knows needs to happen.
If he thinks letting Havlat and Boyle walk and moving Burns back to D is going to fix the problem he’s sorely mistaken. And I won’t hold back my rage against DW if he fails to do what needs to be done.
But if DW has one clear strength, it’s trading. We’ve seen him pull his underwear out his pockets – zoolander style – many times before. He’s gonna have to if he thinks he’s gonna have any impact on this team.
Either way the more I listen to tHhese guys talk I’m more sure the problem lies in the culture and with them themselves.
My anger grows.
Well that was quick. DW is totally dropping the axe.
This just now from Mark Purdy:
“Wilson also acknowledged that as bad as this season’s exit was–blowing a 3-0 series lead to the Kings and being eliminated in seven games—it was merely connected to a trend. The Sharks, for all of their regular season success, have now lost four of their last five playoff series going back to the Western Conference finals defeat by Vancouver in 2011.
In the past, while making minor tweaks, Wilson has defended the Sharks’ blueprint of “refresh and reset.” But on Thursday, he used words he has not spoken before in relation to the team. He used the word “rebuilding” in terms of the months ahead. He used the word “cultural” in terms of why the Sharks have come up short so often.
Folks, you don’t have to reading between the blue lines to read what this all means. Thornton and Marleau will be 35 before the start of next season. Stuart will be 35 in November. Niemi will be 31 in August. It will be interesting to see where Joe Pavelski, who turns 30 in July, fits into the package. Wilson affirmed that many of the veterans do have trade-restriction clauses in their current contracts, including the three-year extensions signed by Thornton and Marleau last winter, but said there are “flexibilities and windows” in all the deals.”
Boom goes the dynamite. It’s gonna be a fun summer.
After the audio from the conference call I was kinda ho-hum but after the thing on KNBR I was like holy crap no one is safe for real. His thing about how some players are infectious with their attitudes and approach spoke to me of Jumbo with out saying his name. Also taking a couple steps back to move forward says to me he has lost a great deal of faith in the current core of the team. Now this is all reading between the lines and a number of interperatations could be drawn but Interesting times indeed…
Here is the link to the KNBR interview if anyone is interested:
http://www.knbr.com/common/page.php?pt=Tom+Tolbert+Podcast&id=781&is_corp=0#
Yeah, wow, I got the sense that DW was directly talking about Marleau and Thornton and I am not of the position that I would be surprised if one of them was not traded. And, sadly, I think it is Marleau that goes. People talk about Jumbo, but you see him get angry out there, we’ve seen him fight guys, you seem him just crushed after G7.
Marleau was clearly disappointed, too, but other than his moment in Calgary after he was crushed by Cory Sarich, he doesn’t have those “moments” that make you think “yeah, that guy WANTS it!” (other than, of course, scoring more goals than pretty much anybody else in the playoffs in the past 10 years).
I think it is pretty much guaranteed the team will be worse next year. Doesn’t mean they can’t win the Cup, but that is how I interpret the “one step back, two steps forward comment” from DW.
So DW finally spoke…
First I am super happy that Robinson will be back behind the bench, I’d be interested to see what his expanded role will be, but having him not return even though it would likely have been of his choosing would have been disappointing.
Dan Boyle not being signed sucks but is probably the best choice, its hard to see one of my favourite players to ever wear teal go. Burns going back to D I’m so torn on because I think that although he was probably over payed as a power forward unless you throw him with Vlassic I am afraid of him being a liability on the blue line.
Havlat being bought out was a foregone conclusion, you don’t pay someone to be a healthy scratch 6 of 7 playoff games.
I’m interested too see what else happens, most of the stuff today didn’t do much for me as with the exception of Burns back to D I think we can all agree that this was likely going to be the first steps of whatever this summer will bring, interesting times ahead.
I just wanted to thank you dudes for continuing on #podcastSTRONG. I can imagine the pain you’re feeling from losing Boyle.
Question to everyone, can you recommend any other podcasts on any subject that has the same vibe as dudesonhockey? Smart, funny, at times theatrical (lol) and hardcore passionate ..
Thanks
The only other podcast that I listen to religiously aside from DoH is Marek vs. Wysh, which can be hilarious and because Marek is a walking hockey encyclopedia I tend to learn things too.
Thanks Ian!! These guys are great.
Anytime 🙂
So one of the thoughts I had about TMc being retained, etc.
We’ve got Marleau and Jumbo for 3 more years, just about no matter what. TMc is under contract for 2 of those, and the team is still a very solid regular season performer. What if the “long term plan” is to get what they can out of the hand they have for the next 2 years. Then if you really need to make larger changes, you swap out the coach at that point, and the new coach has a year to learn the younger parts of the roster, and then you get him some new pieces once the big guys are off the roster, and move on from there. Of course the concern with that, is if you have 2 more years of the middling performance, does that to long-term harm to the younger guys, and they get used to losing?
It’s all well and good to talk till we’re blue in the face about Marleau and Jumbo being moved. But if they have no move clauses in their contracts, that’s just really not an option. When Boyle was forced to take a trade from Tampa to SJ, it was because he had a NTC, not a NMC. Tampa told him that he was going to be put on waivers, and sent to the AHL, so that the crappiest team in the league could claim him. Or he would waive his NTC and have some control over destinations. If the big guys really have NMC’s, that sort of play isn’t an option at all.
I think you missed Doug Wilson’s comments as posted above:
“Folks, you don’t have to reading between the blue lines to read what this all means. Thornton and Marleau will be 35 before the start of next season. Stuart will be 35 in November. Niemi will be 31 in August. It will be interesting to see where Joe Pavelski, who turns 30 in July, fits into the package. Wilson affirmed that many of the veterans do have trade-restriction clauses in their current contracts, including the three-year extensions signed by Thornton and Marleau last winter, but said there are “flexibilities and windows” in all the deals.”
I think he said most, not all, during the interview but I certainly got the impression that Thornton and Marleau were included in those who have a window to trade them.
I’ll just add that we all thought Heater had a locked down NTC as well.
BINGO!
And I’ll add this, when have we ever known Doug Wilson to speak so openly about his players and their contracts? I think the Sharks org as a whole is the most tight lipped org in the league. I tend to think if DW goes out of his way to say his contracts with NTCs and NMCs are in fact moveable – I believe him.
Nothing guarantees a deal gets done, but DW wouldn’t have said that if it wasn’t true.
Per The Fourth Period:
“Niemi, 30, will enter the final-year of his four-year, $15.2 million contract next season. While his salary cap hit is $3.8 million, he’s owed $4 million in actual salary. He does not own a no-trade or no-movement clause.
While trading Thornton or Marleau is not a guarantee and may prove to be difficult, given their no-movement clauses and desire to both stay in San Jose, Pagnotta is also reporting the Sharks’ preference to get younger in goal.
Sharks GM Doug Wilson is trying to re-sign netminder Alex Stalock and hopes to acquire a young goalie this off-season, which could come as part of a package for Marleau or Thornton, or through another deal, perhaps involving Niemi.”
Just rosterbating here, but Jumbo to Toronto makes a ton of sense. They’ve needed a true #1 center for a while and I could see a package like Kadri, a first and maybe either James Reimer or Jonathan Bernier.
The idea of Bernier back in the pacific minding the net for a rival of his former LA Kings seems enticing.
Thanks to the participants here for posting the DW and Drew interviews. DW’s a joke. In the last 3 games the Sharks got crushed 12-2 and he brings back the coach? After one playoff series win in three years? He seems to think the problem is the veterans, but Pavs and Couture and Nieto were also invisible. It’s been 3 weeks and still no major changes, other than what was expected (Boyle and Havlat). No season tickets for me this year. Very reluctant to follow this team as long as it’s under DW. What recent moves has he made that have helped this team? Bring in Kennedy, Burish, Brown, Galliardi, Moore? Release Boyle, one of their best 2 defensive players? Give me a break.
It’s pretty idiotic to expect major changes to be apparent (other than firing the coach) while teams are still playing. Nobody can move, no matter what, until the cup is handed out at this point.
I’m with Kent here, It’s fine to grab your pitch fork and start looking for massive changes but really expecting anything super monster sized to happen before the Draft is kinda crazy if you look at how these things are traditionally handled. Have some patience James I’m sure we are going to see some changes but what we have now is all we will probably see until the draft.
Firstly, it’s not very polite to call anyone idiotic for voicing their opinion. Secondly, I didn’t mention anything in the post other than firing Doug Wilson. He should have been fired immediately a=following game 7, just like the Pens did with their GM. Obviously player changes would come much later. But first, you gotta lose DW.
Hi James, I know it may not seem like it, but in reality this team was one of the best Sharks teams iced ever. There are definitely questions of inner-fight and no-quit attitude that have become contagious within the team, but this is not something you can really hold DW responsible for. Although it might feel vindicating for you to watch DW walk, it would be a complete disservice to the franchise, and next years team. Sure, not every trade he makes is solid gold *cough*McGuinn*cough*, but he’s made some shrewd moves, including the trade for Burns, not to mention the late round picks that have become top players. Let’s keep things in perspective here. If anyone (not on the team) was going to go, it would have been McLellan. I like McLellan, am not sold that he has enough control over the team, but am willing to believe that he and DW know more about the cause of this systemic failure than we do. Give it the whole summer (or at least until July) to see how this pans out.
Per Capgeek on Twitter for those interested.
CapGeek ?@capgeek 7m
There are no windows or lists for Thornton and Marleau — that’s the simple point we’re trying to convey to interested Sharks fans.
Also
CapGeek ?@capgeek 27m
Of course, the Sharks to have an “out” — and that’s finding the right fit for the players and asking them to waive their NMCs.