DOH 296 – A Rocky Road Headed to the Stadium Series
February 18th, 2015, 9:52 pm
The Sharks continue to stumble into the week before the Stadium Series, losing badly to Nashville and Tampa Bay. But they did show grit in coming back against Arizona, and the EPIX series shows a behind the scenes look on that comeback.
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I have had that same fantasy of winning the lotteru and grabbing our new Joe Thornton! Crazy trade offer Braun for O’rielly and a pick.
I like Doug’s idea of dealing away Niemi while also picking up a possible new franchise goalie. The Sharks goaltending situation isn’t getting enough blame. With an above-average goalie, this roster would be a dangerous playoff matchup. The Sharks are currently tied for 8th in the league in goals for. Yes, the team D is very poor overall. But Stalock doesn’t look like an NHL starter. And Niemi’s February save %, including last night’s strong game against Dallas, is .904 and his GAA is 3.44. This is the time of year when those numbers need to be stellar as every game has playoff implications, not to mention trade implications. If Niemi wanted a Sharks contract, he should have upped his playing level. The bottom line is, you’re not going to win in the playoffs giving up an average of 3-4 goals per game. In fact, with those numbers, you shouldn’t even expect to make the playoffs.
Wow, the second goal in the stadium game was bad. That’s a save every NHL-level goalie should make 10 times out of 10. Sure Burns made a bad turnover, but that save HAS to be made.
After watching Pavelski lead that dressing room during the AZ game, it’s even more clear to me that this team is suffering from a major leadership struggle. And for SOME reason, the Sharks coaches or org won’t give the reins, or can’t truly give the reins, to the real leaders of this team.
I am more convinced that keeping Jumbo and Patty around is an epic mistake and until they find a way to force a trade nothing will change.
And we are in serious danger of the worse-case-scenario… which in my mind would be:
1. Never being able to trade those players.
2. Letting them walk away as UFA’s and getting nothing substantial in return in the summer of 2017.
3. Continuing to make the PO’s as a low seed and also continuing in that span to only draft sub-par talent due to low draft position.
I still want to win a cup, but I have to be realist here. If this team is mismanaged over the next three seasons, I think our LONG term future is really in jeopardy. And I don’t want to look back at the careers of Joe Thornton and Patrick Marleau and see their stubbornness and lack of leadership as the reason why this team does nothing over the last decade. We really are stuck between choosing the lesser of two evils IMO.
Agree 100%.
Regarding the whole Mike Richards thing not being featured on the EPIX series… I heard that the camera crews were delayed by weather and didn’t get there until the day after it happened.
It is not that strange that Stalock is not playing well when he is playing.. I mean he is just sitting on his ass getting stiff legs at the moment. He needs to play to become good.
I want this team to win at some point, and I know that that will not happen with this roster or a bandaid roster. I have accepted that and the only solution I see is a real change.
1.) Niemi needs to go, and no new goalie should be acquired until Stalock has gotten a chanse to play for like 30 out of 40 games.
2.) As Tom said. It is time to force Thornton and Marleau to accept some kind of trade so that the sharks get something for them. Maybe it wont be the best deal and maybe it will make the team worse, but their stock is going down and getting nothing would be worse for the future.
3.) Put a “C” on Pavelski and have burns and Vlasic with “A”s so that there is a clear message.
4.) Aquire picks and young players with potential and play them.
5.) Get rid of all the useless players that have no future except as fillers, like Kennedy.
5.) The result of the above will probably be to end up among the last in the NHL. Accept that and draft high.
6.) When the young talent is acquired, get 2 good veterans with a love for the game and that hate losing, while still being able to give something to the young players. (Something like JR and Rob Blake back in 2008.)
7.) Start winning again and start making good “hockey trades” at that point earliest.
It might be hard to not have a good team to cheer for during a time, but at least it wont make the team run dry and lose all hope for like 10-15 years…
I want to see the cup in San Jose, but that wont happen until something is done for real.
I’m not sure how Thornton and (especially) Marleau are going to be forced to be traded without some scorched-Earth tactic like benching them the rest of the season and beyond (which would be unprecedented and career suicide for TMac and DW, at least with the Sharks). Without that, why would either of them waive their NTC?
If I had to put odds of either of them waiving their NTC’s before 2017, it has to be less than 100-1. Maybe even 500-1. They only waive their NTC if the Sharks first trade Pavs, Vlasic, Couture, and Burns and ice a 2nd line of Hertl/Tierney/Nieto. Then, MAYBE, they get out of Dodge knowing they have no chance of winning. But with that core in place, they have no reason to believe they are not as close here as they would be anywhere else.
It just isn’t happening, so with that reality, what should the Sharks do? I say go for broke for two years then hope your rebuild is more Chicago circa 2006 than present-day Edmonton. It’s really the only option, IMO.
The only things I can think of to get Marleau/Thornton to move, are to 1.) Strip their “A”s 2.) Tell them that you want to move them and that it would be for the best of the team. 3.) Tell them that a rebuild is going to happen for real. 4.) Play them a lot less (15 min/game maybe). 5.) Not have them as the front of the team in media, on webpages and so on.
LA, Chicago and Pittsburgh all went bottom 5 for a couple of seasons to get their players.
I think when they see clearly that this team is no longer a contender and they will not be competing for a SC, then I think they might change their tune.
I can’t imagine that either player wants to just ride out their career and is simply content not trying to lift the cup before they retire. If that is the case, then that ALONE tells us very much about them.
It might take another season after this one of not making the POs for them to come around, but I think there is ZERO chance that they are resigned. So unless they are both retiring in the summer of 2017, they are GOING TO HAVE TO PLAY HOCKEY in another city at some point – might as well go now and try and win.
Agree.
However it seems that not many fans seem to agree with breaking it down to build it up.
I posted the same thing I posted here, but on reddit instead. I got downvoted quite a lot and got a shitstorm of comments that I was out of my mind…
http://www.reddit.com/r/SanJoseSharks/comments/2wv2pb/something_needs_to_be_done/
From what I am seeing from you guys, best case scenario is that Jumbo and Patty are traded at the deadline 2016-17?
That seems like bad asset management. Just go for it for two more years. Fine, make Pavs or Vlasic or heck Chewbacca Burns the captain. No Jumbo on the season tickets. No more “awkward Patty” interviews. No “A’s” for either.
But its either full scorched Earth to get those guys to leave (i.e. bye bye Pavs, Vlasic, Burns, Wingels and hello #1 line of Tierney, Hertl, and Karlsson and #3 pick in 2016) or you go for it. Those are the only two real options, no? Because it seems we all agree Patty and Jumbo aren’t going anywhere as long as they think they can win here, which they will believe as long as this core is in place.
One, I think the best case scenario would be trading them at the deadline this year or this off-season, there bye getting the biggest possible return. And possibly getting an additional first round pick in this stacked draft.
Secondly, lets say you’re right. We should just “go for it”.. Can’t move your biggest pieces so might as well go all in, is what I’m understanding you’re saying.
Then answer me this, how do you propose DW improves this team? Cause right now we’re at best a bubble team, let alone not a true contender. .. we don’t have the goaltending or defence.
It seems to me “going for it” is just barely making the dance just to get bounced by the real contenders in the west.
I was hoping for Frandson, but since that is off the table…
1) A rd 3 and Tennyson for Andrej Sekera. Vlasic-Dillon-Sekeraj on the left side is very solid. Sharks not elite yet, but off the bubble.
2) Wisniewski just went on the block. Sorry, but Mueller goes. Him and a 2nd should be enough. With Wisniewski, I think Burns should be moved forward, but that is not going to happen. But Vlasic-Wiz, Braun-Dillon, Sekeraj-Burns is now a top 5 set of pairings. They are now legit contenders.
3) Reaching now, but Irwin/Rourke Chartier/3rd for Antoine Vermette. Now you don’t have to play Pavs at 3C. Tierney gets soft minutes at 4C. Shep/Goodrow/Kennedy duke it out for the wings on the 4th line.
4) And, of course, no more Brown/Scott/Desjardins. Sharks now have deepest forward group in their history.
Sekeraj and Vermette are rentals but not Wisniewski. You can let Vermette leave with Goldobin coming in next year (still incorporating youth).
That’s the dream, anyways…
Picks and prospects for veterans is something DW has already said he won’t do. And its the right call.
Trading picks and prospects for rentals, especially given our situation is crazy. Im sorry, not to be disrespectful, but that’s nuts.
All that cause two players wont waive they NTCs?
Flags fly forever. Sorry, wrong sport. Banners hang forever, I guess? Tell me, isn’t that roster good? Like, REALLY good! I don’t see how that is nuts.
Honestly, there are no GOOD options, only worse and better options. The Sharks should have went all in 3-4 years ago. But, no, we had to have our Scot Nichols and Nic Wallins. We wouldn’t have Tierney or Mueller or Hertl but maybe a Cup or two. We would be out of the playoffs now, Jumbo and Patty traded or let go last year, worse off but better off with better chances at one of those two magic ping pong balls with McDavid’s or Eichel’s name on it.
But, here we are…
Vermette is turning 33 this year. Sekera is turning 29. Sekera I like, but I think BOTH players are overvalued. Especially as rentals.
I’d be willing to trade quality prospects and picks, but NOT for aging over-rated UFAs.
And again, all this for 2 players?!
What has Marleau and Thronton done to deserve such care? They had their shot, they didn’t get it done.
Im sorry I think we’re on totally different planets with this team.
No worries, there is no easy answer with this team. We all just want to cheer for a champion someday.
I still think that squad is a true SC contender, though 🙂 Now, Sekeraj is a King, and with Kane out for CHI the Kings are going to repeat. Never thought I would miss Dean Lombardi, the master of making Sharks hold out in training camp, but for me there is no better GM in hockey (resigning Nolan and Clifford be damned).
I do not think that Pavelski, Vlasic, burns or Coture should be traded. They all have at least like 10 years more and will be needed as “veterans” in a rebuild.
Also the young players that have not had the chance to prove themselves or had the time to get in to the game should not be moved.
What should be moved are the players that either are to old to be there for a rebuild or just wont be “needed”, since they are not contributing anything.
As Tom says, moving Marleau, Jumbo and Niemi should be done as soon as possible. (If it is possible)
The sharks will need to get something to fill those spots, and it should be young talent or draft picks.
At the same time the sharks will need to reach the cap floor, so maybe some old experienced workhorses/winners like Jagr for example would be needed to fill up. (Note that Jumbo is not working in this way, since he has been there to long and cares more for where his family lives than for winning). JR/blake were good examples of players that worked like that in the past. (Note that this would just be to fill up the roster and get to the cap floor in a transition season if needed and to get someone for the young players to learn from)
Yeah, I’m not saying they SHOULD be traded, only that Marleau and Thornton will only be convinced to waive their NTC IF they are traded thus making the Sharks so bad in the near future that they also want to leave.
And without that, we are stuck with those two guys. Might as well make the best of it!
If the Sharks lose to the Senators on Saturday night, it may be time to trade Niemi as well as other veterans and totally tank the season.
God-Damn you Sharks for making me root against you.
i would love a great hockey trade involving Couture. Ship him to buffalo for ennis and a prospect and a future pick. Mikhail Grigorenko looks like a solid option, considering goldobin making his way up soon as well. just a season ago everyone was calling dw for a chance to land couture, since then, i think his stock has dropped dramatically. i say sell high on couture while still filling out the position. the only people safe on this team for sure are unproven prospects, pavs, burns, and vlassic.
that is my crazy trade idea
i remember doug talking a few episodes back maybe condoning for a couture trade. I say send couture to his boyhood team and stock up more on prospects/picks.
I would say that Marleau and Thornton are most certainly safe.
To me, it appears that Doug Wilson is out of ideas. The franchise and fan base turned to him last summer for a big idea to salvage a team that is 1-3 in its last 3 playoff years, and had just lost in historically embarrassing manner to LA. that solidified the franchise’s “choker” reputation. And what is his big idea? Let Boyle go, contracts for Scott, McGinn, and Brown, move Burns to D, and promote a bunch of players who aren’t NHL ready. As for the “young core” players he has penciled in for key roles – guys like Nieito, Stalock, Hertl – well, they regress and have terrible seasons. Honestly, if I were Platner I’d fire Wilson after this season. He had a great run. Time for new ideas and a new direction.