The Trade that Almost Happened…
February 27th, 2008, 12:15 pm
ESPN and The Toronto Globe are reporting that the Sharks had a deal in place to send Kyle McLaren to the Leafs for Pavel Kubina. Yesterday on TSN, several analysts believed the Sharks were not done after acquiring Campbell and that they might still be in the market for a “right handed shooting defensemen”. Former Leafs GM, John Ferguson Jr. mentioned several times that the Sharks liked Kubina, and he would know, since he probably had conversations with DW about several deals while he was still on the job.
The TSN guys bagged on Kubina, calling his recent play awful and he is mentally a liability, and his canon of a shot might not make up for it. Others pointed out that on a good team, example the Stanley Cup winning Tampa Bay squad, he was a +9 and this year with 23 minutes of ice time a game, he has an even +/-. So how bad is he? Would this have been a good move, he’s as tough as Kyle and huge at 6-4 and 240. How would you have felt if the Sharks got Kubina for McLaren?
It makes you wonder what else DW had on the stove that didn’t pan out. He filled two out of three pressing needs, but couldn’t come up with a 2nd liner scorer. Now Plihal is keeping Clowes seat warm since his return is coming “shortly” according to reports.
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I would have been less than happy about this one… I’d have to get a new sweater. But it would have been a good deal for the Sharks. Too bad it didn’t happen.
Ek is reporting that DW was making a play for Olli Jokinen. Another center? No playoff experience? Really?
The rumored package yesterday was Ehrhoff and Marleau to Florida for Jokinen. It would have been a major makeover if the Sharks had gotten Jokinen, Kubina and Campbell….
Who knows where the truth lies. I still think the bigger problem is that Marleau has no one to play with. Tonight he’s rolling out with Plihal and Pavelski. The 4th line of Shelley, Goc and Roenick has had more offensive output.
Pierre McGuire, the guy who ragged on Kubina, hates all things Leafs. Or at least he seems too. The other guys like Milbury and Ferguson (though he could be biased) were much more complimentary of Kubina. McGuire constantly touted how Kubina was a liability and made frequent and serious mental mistakes and giveaways. None of it is true. Kubina is a pretty reliable defenseman. He plays 24 minutes a game, plays on the PP, kills penalties, and doesn’t give the puck away often. In fact he only has 32 giveaways all season which is good for 68th in the NHL among defensemen which is fewer than Pronger, Lidstrom, Chara, Phaneuf, Blake, Phillips, etc. And that is pretty good considering the game monitor in Toronto seems to be more generous in handing out giveaways than most game monitors.
I always thought that Kubina could really help a team like the Sharks. He has some offensive skill and a hard shot which the Sharks could use on the back end and he has excellent size to deal with the bigger physical teams in the western conference. Plus his Stanley Cup experience is always a benefit to a team looking to make a run deep in the playoffs.
Brian: Ek is an idiot and I wouldn’t put much stock in his rumours. Some might be true but I’d bet 95% of them are not.
Heres what my thoughts are, expect a trade to happen between these 2 teams with Kubina involved during the summer anyway when Kubina’s NTC is useless.
Marco,
I don’t understand this comment. NTC means Kubina can veto any trade involving himself at any time. He is signed through the ’09-’10 season. Unless he has a change of heart or a strange NTC clause, he ain’t going anywhere.
David,
Thanks for the counterpoint… I don’t really understand McGuire’s invective.
Mikey, I think the impression Marco is under is that some of the Leafs NTC’s become void this summer if they don’t make the playoffs. I heard that this applies to both Kaberle and Kubina’s deals. I’ve looked for a source to back this up, but can’t come up with anything so all I’m going off is my memory of comments from the TSN broadcast.
Anyone else know anything?
According to this site, it appears Kaberle loses his NTC status in the offseason is the Leafs don’t make the playoffs. This does not apply to Kubina.
http://www.nhlscap.com/no_trade.htm#list
The NTC for Kubina is void in the offseason if the Leafs fail to make the playoffs this year.
Mark Zwolinski of the Toronto Star mentions it here:
Kubina’s no-trade protection runs out if the Leafs fail to make the playoffs this season, while Kaberle, according to a recent report, can be traded between the end of the June 2009 entry draft and Aug. 15, 2009, if the Leafs fail to make the playoffs that year. Tucker, according to the report, will have his no-trade rights reduced to a choice of 10 teams he can refuse to be traded to when he reaches the final year of his contract in 2010.
As for Kubina being crap… feel free to read my posting on the Leafs blog on the site about whether or not he’s worth $5 million.
http://leafs.hockeyanalysis.com/2008/02/18/is-pavel-kubina-worth-5-million-a-year/
I personally think the Leafs should try to hold on to him and ditch McCabe somehow. Unfortunately I’m not sure that’s going to happen. Kaberle would also fetch far more on the trade market… but I think he and Kubina are a good pairing.
Oh and the McLaren for Kubina deal is only good for the Leafs because McLaren’s deal expires after this season… his numbers are not at all comparable.
Blocked Shots per Game:
Kubina (2.52)
McLaren (1.4)
Hits per Game:
Kubina (1.62)
McLaren (2.11)
Takeaway/Giveaway Ratio (higher is better):
Kubina (0.74)
McLaren (0.35)
Points Per Game:
Kubina (0.52)
McLaren (0.2)
Plus/Minus:
Kubina (Even)
McLaren (+6)
McLaren hits more and has a better +/- rating on a better defensive team (which is not surprising)… that’s about it. Which is why he’s being paid half as much. This would’ve been a salary dump for the Leafs and a good pick up for the Sharks if they had consummated. Since they didn’t, and McLaren is unsigned beyond this year, I don’t know that this means much as the trade won’t be the same if it does happen in the offseason.
Thanks for the great info Steve. McLaren is a good player, we love Big Mac here in San Jose. One thing you did get wrong is Big Kyle is signed until 2009 at 2.5M/per.
As far as tonight, Campbell showed exactly why he was coveted. He was on the ice for two of the Sharks goals and brought new life to the game of Matt Carle, Douglas Murray and Joe Pavelski.
This is a new team.
Mike I am simply going by what the media and local radio stations have told me, and that is that Kubina’s trade clause is void should the leafs not make the summer.
I was also under the impression it is the same in Kaberle’s case but apparently that only is in effect if the leafs miss the play-offs next season.
If I am wrong (which I very well could be) then disregard my comments. Otherwise, I say trade him in the off-season.
The way I understand it is if the Leafs miss the playoffs this year they have a window from draft day to August 15th where they can trade him without his permission. After August 15th the no trade clause kicks back in for the remainder of the contract.
Kaberle has a similar clause next season. Should they miss the playoffs in 2008-09 season then Kaberle could be traded in the summer of 2009 without his permission.
Thanks for the info, everyone. Another thing I read that may have more to do with McCabe are reports that Fletcher is considering just buying out some contracts, which would make players available as well.
My problem with the buyouts is that the Leafs get absolutely nothing in return, except for 2/3rds of the cap space the player is currently taking up. In McCabe’s case that’s worth something. In Raycroft’s case again… worth something. In Sundin/Kaberle/Kubina/Tucker’s cases… I’m not sure it’s worth it.
If we bought out McCabe and Raycroft the Leafs would only be paying them $1.58 million a year, and $666,666.66 a year respectively… for double the length of the remainder of their deals. In McCabe’s case that means another 6 years. In Raycroft’s case only 2 more years. The main reason it’s worth it for McCabe is his salary drops drastically from $7.15 million this season and the last one, to $4.75 million for the remainder of his contract.
That would reduce the cap hit of those 2 players from $7.75 million to just about $2.25 million. That’s saving the Leafs $5.5 million just by canning those two players. Kaberle’s contract is still $4.25 million a year from here to the end of his deal, and Kubina’s is still $5 million (to my knowledge). Because of the drop in the cost of the REMAINDER of McCabe’s salary, buying him out costs less than it would’ve for $5.75 a year, and it drastically reduces the cap hit against the team. I would expect them to ditch him this summer. But hey what do I know?
Don’t be surprised if you see Fletcher use the ‘demotion’ threat to get players to waive their no trade clause. McCabe has a no movement so it won’t work for him but he could go to Tucker and say that they are thinking of either buying him out or just demoting him to the Marlies unless he waives his no trade clause. There is no reason you have to trade Kaberle so it isn’t a huge factor for him and Kubina should have a window open up anyway.
Steve, the cap hit for buyouts is a bit more complex than that when it comes to contracts that have varying amounts. If I did my calculations correctly, if the Leafs bought out McCabe this summer the cap hits would be:
2008-09: 1,205,555
2009-10: 3,205,555
2010-11: 3,205,555
2011-12: 1,605,555
2012-13: 1,605,555
2013-14: 1,605,555