“Changes Have to Take Place and Will Take Place”
June 18th, 2009, 2:06 pm
After an unintentional hiatus, the podcast is back with special guest Scott Cullen, hockey writer for TSN.ca, who we discuss several Sharks roster rumors including the visit of the Swedish Monster goalie Jonas Gustavsson and other potential offseason targets Doug Wilson might be eyeing. I think Gustavsson will make his decision on where he wants to begin his NHL career before the draft because it will obviously effect how the teams that lose out maneuver trades, picks, etc.
Here are some other Sharks rumors I’ve found floating around the internet as we approach draft day.
Don Brennan of the Ottawa Sun has the balls to write that he thinks the Sharks would consider dealing Dan Boyle in a trade to get winger Dany Heatley . He ends up making a different, more reasonable proposal, but to even float that Brian Murray wouldn’t want Boyle is funnier than Artie Lange on the Joe Buck show. Mr. Brennan, I don’t know you, and I’m sure you are a decent guy – but you a bat-#$%& #$&’ing nuts, my friend. As for the proposal he settled on (Michalek and Vlasic for Heatley) it sure looks tempting on paper. The Sharks shed two guys who may have peaked before our eyes for a dynamo sniper…but Heatley has been tagged damaged goods – and if any of those knocks on Heatley are true, Doug Wilson isn’t looking to add a player with questionable work ethic and mood. So, I stick to my guns and say – No Heatley in San Jose.
On Spector’s Hockey, Spector comments on the rumored two year, 9M pact between the Sharks as, “absurd” and here’s why. As Mike has discussed before, any salary Blake gets as a player over 35 would be guaranteed and count against the cap no matter what – so for San Jose to enter into a two year deal with a player turning 40 this year wouldn’t be ideal. Here’s the other side of this situation. If Rob Blake takes less than 5M this year, he’s doing Doug Wilson and the Sharks a real solid. This guy had the best year in multiple categories since 2006 and if there were no family considerations or West Coast preference, he could easily get 5M from some one else – so let’s stop hoping for Blake to stick for 3.5M – which would essentially be charity from the former Norris winner. He’s coming back, but I think the truth in that rumor was the 4.5M, but it’s for one year – with maybe a team option for a second.
And now to the quote that is the title of this smartly written post. That was the only clue given to the local press now that Doug Wilson has completed his post-meltdown autopsy. “Changes Have to Take Place and Will Take Place.” So, if you want to be dramatic and totally derail your competition in the process, how about this trade.
To Anaheim: Vlasic and Michalek
To San Jose: Pronger
If Chris Pronger is really available, and if there is a wisp of truth to the Kings rumor, then you better believe that Doug Wilson will be in on those talks as well. We know he tried to get Pronger before, he is probably trying again…I have a funny feeling now that Doug Wilson is going to pull off something big and shocking, like getting Dan Boyle last year. The only thing more dramatic would be landing Phaneuf out of Calgary, which would be like a dream come true – and since Mike’s fantasy came true last offseason with Boyle – I’m reaching for the stars. This is my Cinemax Late-Night programming. Find out what Sutter wants and give it to him. Get one of my favorite players, the nasty Dion Phaneuf in a San Jose Sharks uniform. Come on hockey gods, don’t leave me hanging.
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Michaek + Vlasic for Pronger would be a great trade for the Sharks, but why would Murray want two well known playoff chokers on his team? While I think Vlasic has his best years ahead of him, I really doubt Murray has any need in Michalek. Neither do we.
Michalek for a 15-25 draft pick + 3rd round draft pick is more like it.
*off to listen to podcast*
I’d like Phaneuf as much as the next guy, but Suter is cheaper to get and comes with less of a cap hit. From all the news I’ve coe across over the past week or so, I really don’t think Michalek and/or Cheech are with us after Draft Day and you could maybe throw Ehrhoff in there too. If they could get us a solid vet and a pick to get Kadri or Ellis, I’m stoked
What do you think it would cost us to get Phaneuf?
bcsteve: Here’s my guess at a price: Marleau, Ehrhoff/Vlasic and Joslin for Phaneuf. Here’s why.
I think any deal for Phaneuf would have to involve Patrick Marleau for a few reasons. The first is pure salary exchange and the fact that San Jose would be taking similar money but at a longer term, Phaneuf is signed until 2014 – but this is what I think makes him attractive to Doug Wilson. He will be a steal at that number by then. Also, with Calgary being the closest NHL city to where Marleau grew up, this would be a semi-homecoming for him and he would likely be inclined to stay and sign an extension. With Cammalleri hitting the UFA market, the Flames need a top line forward, so Marleau makes perfect sense. The Flames would need a less expensive, yet productive power play presence to replace Phaneuf and Ehrhoff would fit that bill, and Sutter is certainly familiar with him. Throwing in Joslin gives the Flames another offensive minded d-man who is NHL ready and could play on the powerplay next year.
I would make this deal in a heartbeat. Anyone else? Do you think the price is too high or too low?
cantstopthegrier
It’s an offer that I don’t see Calgary accepting (especially if you’re throwing Error in there). Again, take a point from your recent guest on a webcast – whoever is trading for Marleau is essentially trading for just one year of Marleau. Even if he is connected geographically to Calgary region, he stated before that he’s at home now in San Jose as much as he is in Canada. He’s been here since 18 years old, that’s a long time.
I am also hoping that in all those trades we won’t somehow trade away Vlasic. Yes, he had dismal playoffs and WC, but let’s remember how old he is (it dawned on me last night watching the awards that Lidstrom didn’t get his first Norris until he was 31 y.o.) and the fact that his partner Blake didn’t shine in playoffs either. Vlasic led the whole team in ice time. For all we know, he’s our future captain – let’s not trade away our future that easily.
Finally, I just don’t see Calgary trading away a face of their franchise just because he had a one not-so-stellar season (we’re not shopping Thornton either). He was a Norris finalist just the year before and is only 24.
With that said, if there is a way to get rid of Error, I’m all for it.
I think you make the trade in a heatbeat if it’s Ehrhoff instead of Vlasic. I would hope we could get a 3rd rounder maybe for Pickles in addition. While I agree that I doubt Calgary pulls the trigger on the deal, it would be huge for us. We would solidify our D for the next 5 years with Boyle, Dion, Vlasic/Ehrhoff, Murray and Petrecki. And let’s not forget, despite the economy, the price of D-men is growning. Whitney at a 4M cap number is a steal, Orpik got 3.75/yr for basically 1 shift in the ’08 finals, and freaking Murray got 12M over 4. Phaneuf is a steal long term. And gotta think that as a former D-man himself, DW is salivating at having arguably the best blue line in the league for the next 5 years.
The question then, however, would be what to do with the gap Marleau leaving creates? Move Clowe up to Joe’s line and put McGinn with Pavs? Could work.
I know I’m getting way ahead of myself here, but playing armchair GM at work sure as hell beats working. Great podcast, by the way. Keep ’em coming.
The only way Calgary moves a 24 year old potential No. 1 defenceman — who admittedly struggled last year, but is their youngest d-man and probably youngest player of significance — is if they get a) salary relief and b) young productive players in return.
For that reason, as others have surmised, one of Vlasic/Ehrhoff is going — probably Vlasic, because I think Sutter would probably kill Ehrhoff after 2 weeks, and they need an NHL ready d-man back.
That also means probably one of Couture/Petrecki, if not both. The prospect part of the deal, if you will, given that we have no picks to peddle anymore (basically). I don’t see the Flames biting on Joslin instead of Petrecki. The way I figure trade propsals is which guy would I rather keep, and that’s the guy the other team will want, too.
And then, one of Pavelski/Setoguchi.
Which sounds like a monster package, but I think there is a huge tendency to overrate our own players. In that scenario, I would rather give up Pavs, and hope that Mitchell can develop into that type of player. Replacing Setoguchi would be a lot harder internally.
Phaneuf is controlled through 2014 at $6.5M and he’s just 24. If I’m Calgary, I’m only trading him if it makes my team better now and in the future (presumably). Because losing a guy like Phaneuf is huge.
Even with that package — Vlasic/Petrecki/Pavs — I would do it, but would Calgary? Might have to put Couture back in the deal. Phaneuf takes Vlasic’s minutes and you hope Mitchell is ready for that kind of role. Or you play Marleau on his own line. Still need to move some players to create salary relief — like Cheechoo.
Sharks definitely have the pieces to do it, but it depends on whether Wilson is willing to give up some of his guys to do so. None of these guys San Jose would be giving up have the upside of Phaneuf, so I say do it.
Or, we could offer Thornton for Phaneuf straight up and see which team blinked first. Sharks get to keep their “depth” and Calgary gets to really “go for it” the next couple of seasons with Thornton and Iggy as their window is closing even faster than San Jose’s.
Would seem to fit both team’s structure, better. Flames don’t really have young blood in the pipeline and Iginla is already 31. They would finally have their 1st line centre they have been looking for to pair him up.
Of course, Wilson has already gone on record saying Thornton is staying.
Whatever Mike offered the hockey gods last year, you’re going to have to triple the offering for your stated desire. No way Phaneuf leaves Calgary this summer.
Also, I predict The Swedish Monster ends up in Toronto – playing time being the deciding factor.
If Pronger gets moved, he’s going east – I’d say to the Caps.
And it might be time to get your puns ready for Heatley – the Bay seems like a probably destination. Just after the Sens pay his roster bonus on July 1.
Any ideas on how Wilson is going to get a first round pick? Seems like he indicated that was on his to-do list.
Yes, you get playing time in Toronto, and media and fans, but you get to play on a team that hasn’t made playoffs in years. I don’t think there is a goalie in the NHL that can save that franchise.
I love this time of year.
Agreed that Gustavsson will go to Toronto and if the Ducks were smart, they would deal Pronger as far away as possible. I think Sutter would be mental to trade Phaneuf, but crazy things have happened…and if Sutter has popped the crazy pills and put him on the block – then I have think DW has been on the phone with him.
I think DW gets a first round pick, but might not necessarily use it – he could flip it to get a player. A great topic for next week’s podcast.
It is a good time of the year. July and August – not so much.
Along the lines of the first round pick – when Burke fails in his bid to land Tavares, do you think he’ll dangle his first rounder for an immediate upgrade? Say Marleau. (I wouldn’t say straight up, but as the starting point)
A week from now can’t come fast enough!
Jeremy
Now ask yourself, will Marleau wave his no trade clause to go play in Toronto? For some coach called Ron Wilson.
Al Strachan of foxsports.com says that DW has a better shot at getting a top 3 pick than Burke. Anybody buying this?
http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/9693912/Dreary-clutch-and-grab-era-a-distant-memory
I agree that trading Vlasic would be incredibly unwise. Evgeni Malkin had a terrible first couple of rounds too, you know. A kid that can play great defense in the NHL in his teens is not someone you give up on at 21. Meanness is overrated, I mean, who of consequence is “mean” on the Wings and Penguins?
Gustavssen’s choices are very odd. SJ, DAL, COL, and TOR? I know most are thinking if he signs in San Jose he will share time with Nabby, but wouldn’t the whole point for SJ be to get a huge discount on quality goaltending due to his entry level contract? I would have to think DW is telling him that if he signs in San Jose, he will trade Nabby (packaged in a trade with Michalek and a prospect for Heatley?).
Things change quick. Remember when the only thing we knew was that Cheechoo was gone? Shoot, I haven’t heard anything about him at all.
Al Strachan is a moron the fact that he gets so much TV time is apalling, I remember at the deadline he said Brian Cambell could be had for the right price, I mean I guess anyone could be had at the right price but that was the only time I had heard his name in any rumor. Hes like the tabloids of sports reporting and anything he says should be taken as for entertainment value only. The idea of the Sharks moving Boyle for anyone is laughable. I still need to listin to the podcast but felt the need to rant on Al. I am looking forward to seeing what moves unfold.
Ruben: I think the choices for Gustavssen are actually fairly strategic by his representatives. He picked two playoff teams with starting goalies that have one year left on their deals, a team in Toronto where Ron Wilson always makes his goalies look good by enforcing good team defense, and Colorado where he would be the undisputed starter from day one.
The key for him is that after a year, the Sharks or Stars could pay him big cash. The fact that he is represented by Joe Thornton’s brother’s firm could give the Sharks the upper hand – but my gut still says he is lured by the mystic of Toronto.
And I think you’re right – the fact that we haven’t heard Cheechoo’s name might mean he is a goner for sure. Some big changes could be cookin’ in the next two weeks.
The only question that still remains is why he did not pick Team Swed.. eh, Detroit. Or was it Detroit that never extended him an invite? Sure Osgood may have couple of years left or more, but Detroit has the best European scouts in the game, and yet no invite for this wonderkid?
Ivan brings up an Excellent point, its really somthing too ponder.
Good point Ivan. Though it could be that Detroit isn’t willing to pay big money to ANY goaltender, which they know they will have to do with Gustavssen. Detroit has shown you can win without a top 10 goalie (though I know some disagree that Osgood is not a top 10 goalie).
Oh yeah, and anyone that writes that Danny Boyle could be traded for anybody besides Crosby/Ovechkin/Datsyuk/Malkin/Zetterburg doesn’t deserve a job as an NHL analyst. Which means that there is 0% chance Boyle is traded.
Ruben –
Gustavsson is subject to an entry level contract. It doesn’t matter who signs him, he’ll make $900k max next year wherever he plays. That’s another reason why I’m puzzled Detroit is not on his list.
Because Detroit scouts have such a strong presence in Europe, it may very well be that they know more about him than any other NHL scout. After all, nobody drafted him during all these years, and there is a reason why.
So if we don’t sign him, I won’t consider this to be the end of the world.
Great thing about reading these. Take any rumor floating around as a possibility. Oh sharks will get Gaborik, Bouwmeester and Heatley by just giving up Cheechoo. Morons reporting this crap. Cut and paste cut and paste.