That Answers That Question
October 23rd, 2009, 10:12 am
The question of course being, “Can the Sharks continue to win despite giving up the first goal and not really playing hard until the second period?” In the pros, you can only play a 40-minute game down a goal or two before it all catches up with you. Even against the team that has had the #1 overall and #2 overall picks in the last two drafts. I guess Steven Stamkos had his sophomore slump a year early (he’s that advanced!) and is rapidly turning into a very dangerous player. The Sharks found that out last night firsthand, when Stamkos had two goals giving him 6 on the year, now tied for 9th in the league.
So what was different about the Lightning game versus the Ranger game? The Sharks never snapped out of it. They were one more game into a long road trip, and couldn’t automatically count on flipping the light switch, to use an entirely overused turn of phrase. Also, I must say, Nabby wasn’t nearly as sharp last night as we’ve seen him early in the road trip, and adds to my frustration about the coaches’ complete aversion to Thomas Greiss. Is he telling lame jokes on the bench? Won’t play pinochle on the flights? I don’t care- put him in the game already.
I’m reminded of a question we asked ourselves in a podcast just before the season started- would it be a really bad thing if the Sharks came out of the gate mediocre? I think we’re going to find out. There’s certainly one positive thing: no one is overconfident about San Jose right now. We’ve seen the best and the worst this team has to offer in the first ten games, and now the guys need to isolate the good and figure out a way to mass-produce it.
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Part of the reason why I’m not worried about this time right now is BECAUSE they aren’t doing that great. Sounds counter intuitive but let me explain.
Last year they came out like gang busters, got big heads, cruised to the presidents trophy. Old story, I know. But this year if they have to work to improve throughout the season, which it looks like they do, they should be progressing towards hitting their best later in the season. It will instill work ethic and effort in which may have been lacking in most of the second half of last season. It’s almost like the playoffs were their ‘post cup hang over’. If we can avoid that this year by starting slow, I say we’re better for it.
First, thanks for addressing my question on the podcast.
Second, here is the thing. There are three teams in the NHL this season that everyone is going to bring their best game against. First, obviously, the Penguins. Then Detroit – something they had to play through for over a decade now every game. Third, the Sharks because of the President’s Trophy and because of all the all-stars that now wear teal. No more riding under the radar. Everyone knows the hockey we play, how we set up on the PP, how we don’t ever block any shots, how we’re asleep in the first 10 minutes, how Nabokov sometimes loses focus etc etc, and therefore, if we don’t bring our best game against other teams, we’ll find ourselves where we were last night – in a hole. I have no doubt that Tampa will look terrible in the next few games, and Smith will go back to his 5.00 GAA, but when others play the Sharks, they play them hard. Well, unless you’re Rangers who won 7 in a row..
But that’ll be the story of the season, unless we continue to tank and people forget that we were once a scary team.
Penguins were awful at the beginning last year, Det was was very inconsistent.
Vesce with another goal. Ryan Clowe no points and a -2. Ryan Clowe can’t stay on the top two lines if this continues to when Pavs gets back. I mean, it’s not like Clowe has ever been good 5v5 anyways.
And don’t you guys think Scot Nichol should be getting more than 8 minutes like he did in TB? I have to admit, with Greiss not playing, Nichols odd ice time, Clowe’s PT being unaffected despite poor play, and the general unpreparedness of the team coming out of the gate every game, McLellan certainly has not had a great start to the season. I’m certainly not putting him on any type of hotseat or coach-watch, but he has been just as bad coaching as Clowe has been on the ice, at least from an outsiders perspective.
I dunno Ivan, maybe the Bolts came out big because they got worked in their last game and had five days off with the coaches kicking their ass. I’m not a true believer in “everyone gets up to play X” because some teams look like utter crap playing against the best.
I have to say Ruben, the McLellan comment is an interesting one. Of course he’s not on any sort of hot seat, but I didn’t like the shootout lineup at all against PHX (read this for more), and I still don’t get why Greiss hasn’t started a game yet.
Regarding the Ryan Clowe/who-should-be-in-the-top-6 discussion. I really think that once Pavs is back we have what it takes to roll 3 very offensive lines, and only 1 checking line. Thoughts? While I know lines shift, and mix throughout the season, the general setup of lines should be something like this once Pavs is back:
Heatley-Thornton-Setoguchi
Marleau-Pavelski-Clowe
(Mitchell)Ferriero-Malhotra-McGinn/Vesce
Ortmeyer-Nichol-McLaren/Staubitz/Shelley
The wingers might be a little mixed up based on their natural wing but are grouped based on interchangeability.
Especially once Mitchell (fingers crossed) is back that 3rd line should be thought of much more as an offensive unit than a grind/checking unit.
Obviously there are a lot of things still to be sorted out as many of these players only have a few games played this season but there certainly seems to be assets that could be moved in order to bolster the D. I think that’s been a pretty glaring hole so far this season, we need one more solid D.
My only concern with a slow start is that they will feel even more pressure to make up for the slow start later on. They’re going to make the playoffs, sure. But they’re going to want home-ice advantage at least in the 1st round. So they’ll be chasing points.
Isn’t that just going to mean that they’re going to feel like they *have to* play Nabokov every game, even more so than they already do now? Because the available points will be that much more critical?
Also, one of the common excuses heard after losing to Anaheim last year in the playoffs was how the Ducks were not a traditional No. 8 seed. Well, a slow start isn’t going to do them any favours in terms of 1st round opponents. Which is another thing we’ve heard in the past: Maybe it’s good for San Jose to have a tough test in Round 1 — a la Calgary and Anaheim — so that they don’t have time to fart around. While it went all right with Calgary, they were “too beat up” for Round 2 against Dallas. Whatever.
The way the team is up and down and Coach McLellan’s comments about the lack of intensity (at the start of games) and work ethic (at times) is startling similar to the Ron Wilson era. I’m not saying the coaches are the same, but surely, a lot of the frustrations are.
Mike,
I agree with your point about Tampa. They looked and played hungry. Sharks didn’t look hungry and desperate.
Also, thanks for fielding my question on the podcast… I was not though, as you probably figured out afterwards, suggesting that Pavs get bumped…
I think where you guys went with the discussion is what I was getting at. Clowe has to be the odd man out if he isn’t scoring and Vesce is. He is now on 3 goals in 3 games and seems even more comfortable. I REALLY DO NOT agree that Vesce should get sent to Worster. Doug is right, you can’t preach a message of play well and you get the ice time, and then ship the guy down… that would send a bad message. I think you stick Clowe on the third line.
But where you guys went was where I go logically. If Clowe really starts sucking bad… like 25 games later he has only a few points, I think you gotta trade him.
Something you guys said at the end of the P-cast made me think. The one team that would really do well with Clowe, that might need help now is Boston.
I would love to get Mark Stuart.
Also, and I’m asking more on this one (and yes evilducks everyone’s opinion…) anybody know anything about Tuukka Rask?
Tom – 25 games and you’ll trade him? A bit of an early assessment. Lacavalier now doesn’t have a goal for 19 games. Should Tampa trade him?
I don’t think Dougie will trade Clowe even if he finishes a season with 20 points. Remember, it took the whole season for him to trade underperforming Bernier and Carle.
Clowe will wake up. Probably sooner then we think.
If anything, it’s our defense that needs serious help. I really wish instead of signing Clowe, we’d invested his salary into Scuderi.
Honestly, I think DW tried to trade Clowe in the off season and couldn’t find any takers at the price he was asking for.
But Mark Stuart is a D… I am suggesting that as well. and I think DW would trade him because everything DW has done so far points to an “all in” kinda attitude. Cup or bust sort a thing…
Nick, do you really believe that the Sharks’ early struggles “will instill work ethic and effort?” If that’s what this team needs to get going, then the Sharks are in serious trouble.
Mike, the reason McLellan isn’t playing Greiss is the same reason the team is struggling right now. Our defense sucks. McLellan can’t play Greiss because it’ll mean an automatic loss given how our defensemen are (not) performing.
Aside from the problematic blue line, the team’s main issue remains the same – their attitude. For whatever reason, Doug Wilson continues putting together teams that lack heart, hunger and nastiness. You certainly don’t want a team that gets too high or too low, but the Sharks are TOO even keeled.
Did anybody see the Vancouver vs Chicago game on Wednesday? The Canucks’ were down 2-1 in the 3rd period when Willie Mitchell smashed Jonathan Toews with a thunderous check. It was a vicious but clean hit on an unsuspecting Toews who could barely stumble his way off the ice afterward. Mitchell’s hit completely shifted the momentum of the game and Vancouver ultimately came back to win it.
When was the last time we saw that type of play and effort from the Sharks? As the debacle in Tampa unfolded, I was waiting to see if anybody on the Sharks would show some pride and step up the way Willie Mitchell did for Vancouver. Alas, the Sharks just mailed it in with their signature ho-hum effort.
If any team has an excuse to have a hangover from last year it’d have been Pittsburgh. The last I checked, the Penguins are 9-1. The Sharks have no excuse. They had something to prove after their disastrous playoff series against Anaheim. The Sharks should’ve stormed out of the gates. Instead, they’ve come out flat in just about every game so far.
The sad part is, the window of opportunity with this group closes after this year. Because chances are, Marleau, Nabby and Blake won’t be back next year. So this is it. I don’t know how Doug Wilson is going to fix the defense and the team’s overall mentality by the trade deadline. But that’s what he has to do if this team’s going to do some damage in the playoffs.
Jerry,
You make some good points and they are hard to argue with especially when you state them with such moral authority….lol
However, tell me exactly what have the Canucks done? Regular season or Playoffs that the Sharks have not. Have they even made a Conference final? Have they done anything… Seriously, the Canuck love is over-rated.
And the Stanley cup champion Penguins were terrible in the first half of the season last year.
And I would much rather the Sharks finish strong than blow their load too early like last year.
I seem to remember Scot Nichol and Jamie McGinn absolutely destroying two Capitals in that game. Didn’t do anything to change the momentum. Momentum is often whoever scores the next goal.
Re: trading Clowe. If Clowe has 10 points in 45 games, who is going to want him at that salary? I think he stays, he keeps his PP time because he has a history of success there, and he will get a handful of games with Pavs. If he is still struggling, he gets 3rd line duty and a refresher course on battling.
Obviously, 1 point in 10 games is pretty bad for a top-6 forward. But, what are we actually expecting from Clowe?
He is a 20G/50pt guy, right? He’s already 27 and he typically gets injured. I feel like there is this expectation of 30G/60pt for him, but I don’t know how accurate that is (both the perception and the expectation).
Clowe has had two distinct stretches of games that might have inflated the perception of his worth: (1) the first 4 games in the ’08 Calgary playoff series and (2) the first 2 months of last year, where he potted 11 goals and 23 points in 24 games. He had just 2 points in the remaining 9 playoff games in ’08 and after the all-star break last year, he had just 3G/14pts in 26 games. I know he was injured then, but he still ended up playing 71 games and wasn’t that when the 2nd line was keeping the team afloat?
Is he really just a 3rd liner getting paid as a 2nd line forward and the latest “overrated” SJ forward? (Which goes to Tom’s point above how Wilson might have had trouble getting “value” for him this off-season.) It’s funny how McLellan compared him to not Holmstrom, but Franzen, during those first 2 months last year. Now, with our collective frustrations, he’s like the new Cheechoo.
I don’t buy the idea that starting slow guarantees better playoffs. We did that EXACT thing two years ago and had the same results. I’m sure it has an important effect, but I don’t think there’s a single formula for how to do well in the regular season to prepare for doing well in the playoffs.
Don’t you remember how last year we looked at all the stats about how when anaheim won the cup and when detroit won the cup, they started out incredibly dominant, and then went through some bumps and bruises before picking it up later? There will always be a stat or theory that supports the way the team is currently playing.
I say it’s better that they start mediocre, play like a normal team, with ups and downs. Give the young players a chance to grow and work out their kinks. And then when the playoffs come around we’ll root for them as much as we can and hope for the best!
Seems to me when people talk about the Pens starting off slow last year they leave out the point that the Pens played in the Finals the season before, 2008. That is a long season for them as well and didn’t end up with the cup. Its like the Wings this year, they aren’t the usual Wings but they played a game 7 in June in the Finals, thats a long season for them. Plus the demoralisation that they were up 2 games to none and lost in the end.
This is the last year for this team before “rebuilding” as I see it. The big name contacts are up.
@ Adam
That is definitely a valid point about Clowe. I think most of us are expecting him to put up 60-70 points, with much of that improvement coming with better 5v5 play on his part. If he is a 50 pt forward, I think he is overpaid and another restricted free agent mistake by Doug Wilson. Until he decides otherwise, Clowe is not a Holmstrom-like beast in front of the net, he is a Joe Thornton-extra lite who likes to dish and use his body for puck possession. If he wants to be a 40-50pt big body playmaker, he profiles as a 3rd line winger on this squad with some 2nd unit PP time.