The Dudes talk about the upcoming draft, Brad Stuart vs. Barret Jackman, and some possible trade partners for a certain Sharks veteran.
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The Sharks clearly can’t win with Marleau. He has been with the team since he came into the league and is now 32 and is basically the face of everything that is wrong with the team. If they don’t trade him, nothing is going to change. I mean, the Red Wings knew that and that is why they traded Steve Yzerman, who was heavily criticized by Detroit fans in the early 90′s for lacking focus and not being able to handle criticism, and then they went and won all those cups.
Oh, wait, that’s right, they held on to Steve Yzerman because he was really good and you don’t win by trading away good players. Then he went and finally won his first Cup in 1997, at the age of 32.
Trading Marleau (especially for any of those packages you guys discussed) would make the Sharks a worse team for at least the next couple of years and only for the hope that whatever prospect /draft picks received turn out awesome.
I dunno, I guess I just don’t see the hate for Marleau. I didn’t like his 0-fer in the playoffs, either, but we are talking about a guy who at times was the only effective player on the team against the toughest competition(Blackhawks ’09, Canucks ’10). A guys like Brandon Dubinsky is a fine player, but whether by advanced stats, traditional stats, scouting, whatever… he does not help a team win more than Patrick Marleau. The fact that Marleau helps the team win but with a derp expression on his face is irrelevant.
Amen. Very well said.
2 podcasts in 1 week? :faint:
Let me say this about the Marleau trade ideas… Unless DW has an out with some unknown clause in Marleau’s No-movement, he isn’t going anywhere. I can’t realistically imagine Marleau agreeing to any trade.
Back to Ottawa… I realize as I said in my email, I doubt they’d be willing to give up Greening. However, I do think Ottawa is a potential trade partner with us because I could see Ottawa wanting to add pieces to their roster.
That said I could see SJ trade something like Douglas Murray AND Ryane Clowe for some package more substantial. Murray and DW do have a trading history and I do think Ottawa is looking to add pieces to their team and improve on their surprising performance last year.
What SJ would want in return, I don’t know, but I struggle with the thought that DW would be fine just getting a pick back for a player he likes (like Douglas Murray) when he could get something better in return that would help our needs now. Just another pick or prospect doesn’t help us now.
Just my thoughts on that, but thanks for answering my email!
Im not sure Barret Jackman is a good comp as far as contract, as he took a huge hometown discount to stay with the Blues. I wouldn’t doubt that the Sharks would have had to pay $4mil+ if they wanted him in the open market. But Jackman is a better dman, and I would want him over Stuart at the same cost.
I don’t think Stuart is great, but he will be an upgrade over Murray. He better learn how to defend the 2v1, thought, because he is going to have a lot of those playing with Burns (one reason why I prefer the Vlasic-Burns and Boyle-Stuart pairings, Vlasic is probably the best Dman in the league at playing the 2v1).
Parros in teal? Not gonna happen. Marleau to NY? Not gonna happen.
Stuart is a good move, but 3.6 is way too much.
Wish the dudes debated the real question: Who is the Sharks’ trade bait?
I think Sharks fans are tough on Marleau
But imagine him in Montreal. He will be eaten alive
My opinion, Brad Stuart is the defensive defenseman version of Jack Johnson. Jack Johnson is big, skates well, puts up points, he has the look of a good defenseman to the bare eye, but ask advanced stat guys and across the board they will tell you, he’s terrible.
Now I’m not actually sure I agree with them when it comes to Johnson, but it’s the same kind of idea with Stuart, except I dont need the advanced stats, I can actually see the problems.
Like Johnson, Stuart is mobile, he’s strong, he can carry the puck, he looks like a really solid defenseman, smooth skating, compact, made like a rock. But with him even more than Johnson, it’s all the little things that you see when you look close, the decision making, the positioning, the giveaways, where Ive actually been really disappointed with him.
If you think back to the playoffs series against the Red Wings, it seemed like whenever the Sharks got a “lucky” goal that hit something and went in, it was always Brad Stuart who was the guy who knocked it into his own net somehow. Remember when the Sharks powerplay was on fire against the Red Wings in those series, always getting the important goal? I always remember him being on the ice for those goals against, in the middle of the defensive breakdown.
He’s like a great defenseman package in skill and strength terms, but one who doesnt actually know how to play the position in a way, might be the best way to put it. Maybe its because he came into the league as an offensive defenseman, wasnt good enough at it, and thought Ill just change completely and be defensive. You go the first 25 years of your life focusing on offense, Im not sure you can just develop great defensive instincts just like that. I think people thought he could because he skates so well and is physical enough to excel at being any kind of defenseman he wants, but Im not sure it worked.
Is he better than Doug Murray? He definitely loookss better if you were to watch him skate for 10 seconds and then watch Murray skate. But is he really? Is it possible he’s worse?
The cap hit is not great, to answer the Dudes’ question I think Jackman is easily the better defenseman, the way he played against the Sharks I would put him much closer to the do it all performance of Willie Mitchell for the Kings than Brad Stuart.
But that only comes back to the details and Stuart really playing below his skills. If he can play as well as he skates and hits, then he’s a big upgrade over Murray, and the cap hit is fine. Thats what we have to hope for.
I don’t think Stuart is that bad, but I know the feeling. It was the feeling I felt when the Sharks signed Michael Handzus. I remember the general perception was that Handzus was a great fit for the needs of the team (great PKer, will release the top 6 to easier minutes, great faceoff guy) but all I remembered about him was how he basically ole’d Patrick Marleau along the boards right before Marleau set up Setoguchi for the GWG against the Kings in the playoffs last year.
I certainly hope Stuart is not another Handzus.
I think Francois Beauchemin is another player that kind of fits the mold Im talking about, although he’s a step above Stuart I think, it’s the same idea. He’s big, well built, he skates well, he really looks like a good defenseman, and I think he did play well for the Ducks down the stretch last season, but the first half, it was the hockey sense, the decision making, where his impact on the ice was far below his level of talent.
Thats how I see Stuart, but the thing about talented players who are done in by bad decision making is all it takes for them to become really good players is just start making good decisions! Of course if it was that easy he would have figured it out by now, but at least the hope is, when the talent is there, all it takes is for him to start using it effectively, and maybe he can for the Sharks.
OK, Dudes, you’ve put voice behind my secret new Shark wish: Parros in Teal. Hell, if we’re gonna run basically the same roster out next season, wouldn’t it be fun to see the Moustache banging around a little bit?
McLellan talking about improving on the wings and some disputed rumbling coming out of WPG about Evander Kane being unhappy……is there an opportunity here?
Probably more so than Parros in teal?
OMG, somebody put me out of my misery… what are the chances that DW makes up for his mistake last year and signs Kyle Wellwood as a UFA? 5%? .5%?
Man I would love to see what guys like Wingels, Galiardi, and Winnick could do with a legit playmaking center on the 3rd line (no offense to Desjardins, who was effective with Winnick/Wingels, as well)
Per Nick Kypteos via twitter:
Senators and Sharks the two teams most intested still in Nash.
Says, “@RealKyper. Names from #Sharks being speculated in potential Nash deal besides 1st round pick include Clowe Pavelski and Demers.”
Fuck it – why not.
I sure wouldn’t make that trade.
I don’t like this Nash talk. His cap hit is too big.
If he throws on the sandals and flops like most of the other high $ players on this team, they’ll just label him Marleau part deux….or Heatley part deux…or….
Anyone else think Mike Ribero in Washington is hilarious..?!
I’ll admit Ribero is a good player but they just went from soft to floppy. Im glad I don’t have to see his stupid face six times a year any longer.
Read today that Nash won’t waive NTC for Otawa…interesting.
Why does this remind me more and more everyday like the Heatley situation??!
Star player wants a trade? Check!
Star player will only accept a few teams to play for? Check!
Team that holds star player holds out for ridiculous return? Check!
DW waits patiently for other GM to get backed into corner and accept lower offer? TBD!!
I know nobody is feeling positive about the team at the moment, but what do the dudes have to say about the advanced stats, fear the fin take on this season – basically that bad luck was a huge factor and that running out the same group of players next season with a few minor tweaks is very likely to yield much better results. Thoughts dudes?
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Should the Sharks sign Scott Gomez?