Doug Wilson, the Sharks’ GM, has made the media rounds since last week, and put forth in broad strokes the strategy for the Sharks going forwards. The Dudes try to read between the lines.
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I’m starting to have a very bad feeling that by moving Burns to D, we’re going to see our center depth depleted by making Pavelski a full-time winger (let’s assume Thornton and Marleau stay), with James Shepherd struggling to hold down the 3rd line center role, this will remind we a lot of our team a couple years back with Handzus failing to fit into the system.
That said, it should be noted that Tomas Hertl played as a center during his time here in the Czech men’s league. I got to see several games and he was a great center, not sure how it will translate to the NHL and more specifically, the responsibility as a Sharks center. His language skills might not yet be up to snuff to understand the system well enough to bear that burden. They might want to keep him as a free-wheeling winger, much like they did with Burns.
I keep coming back to the memory of early in this year, some of the most impressive hockey I saw was when the Sharks had Pavs as 3rd line center and they were just rolling their lines like an unstoppable machine. It was magnificent, and I’m worried we may not have that luxury starting next season.
With how well the Kings have performed vs the Ducks and how well they’re doing (especially offensively) vs Chicago does it give slight pause to completely wanting to blow up the core of the Sharks? You guys felt pretty strongly that Chicago should handle the Kings especially after 2 full length series, but they seem to just keep on going.
Could the Kings with Quick actually playing up to par just be that good? Mind you, I’ve been left so sour after the loss that I have not watched any games after so I don’t know if it’s just the Kings playing well or other teams sucking.
I can only answer for me… and for me it changes nothing.
In fact, I’ll argue that I think this shows we had the talent to go all the way. But, that’s the problem isn’t it! All talent and skill when things are easy but no heart and grit when they get punched in the mouth and knocked on their ass.
It’s pretty simple to me. This team is broken. It will never get fixed by doing nothing. Frankly I’m tired of feeling sick to my stomach every playoffs bc I know when push comes to shove, even though the Sharks have the talent to win the cup, they WILL FOLD LIKE A CHEAP TENT.
It’s time for something different. I think it’s time to start looking toward the future and hoping again that a proper team can be built that knows how and what it takes to win the greatest trophy in sports.
I’m with Tom on this one for the most part. It changes nothing for me as well. Its very easy as fans for us to just hang our hats on the idea that the better team just won and we’re not as good as the Kings but as much as the Kings deserve credit Its not like there was no fault in the Sharks game, simply put the Sharks could have and more importantly should have won the series after going up 3-0. The best team does not always win a 7 game series so the idea that it could be remotely ok because the kings are rolling Chicago is rubbish.
The other frustrating train of thought here and this has nothing to do with what Bcyde said. I just feel like ranting… The idea that if the Sharks beat LA we do what LA has done the rest of the playoffs which is also rubbish… by that logic if the Leafs just hold on and beat Boston last year they win the cup instead. Its all silly logic that Sharks fans shouldn’t romanticize with because its easier than looking to a future that has a bit of the unknown.
Although maybe some people have just hit the bargaining portion of their grieving process.
Considering it was most of the “young core” and “gritty players” that really underperformed in games 4-7 (Pavelski, Couture, Stuart, Hannan, Torres, Desjardins, Wingels) I really don’t understand the reaction to wanting to blow it up by shipping out Marleau and Thornton. But, I’m not a big believer in general of “grit” and “heart” (the Canucks went to a SC Finals Game 7 against the big bad Bruins with the Sedins as their leaders). Talent usually wins out and quite frankly the Sharks were not as good as the Kings (it was very close, but they weren’t).
I’m still waiting for the season where the Sharks go full Red Wings/Blackhawks style and ditch all of the crap “energy” and “grit” guys on the bottom lines (I think it is no coincidence that the LA series changed when Tanner Pearson was inserted for Jordan Nolan and they dropped Mike Richards to the 4th line, making the Kings the only team with more center depth than the Sharks and an ability to run 4 legitimate lines). I want a Kyle Wellwood on the 4th line and Trevor Daley on the 3rd pair, not Andrew Desjardins and Scott Hannan. I want a 3rd and 4th line full of guys that wouldn’t embarrass themselves on the top line, like the Hawks have with Brandon Saad and the Kings have with Tyler Toffoli. But no, hi Mike Brown and Adam Burish! I don’t think the Sharks are good enough until Tommy Wingels and James Sheppard are 4th line wingers.
That said, the writing is on the wall. Unless Thornton and Marleau truly have full NTC’s and fully invoke them (and they might, which is why DW either knows that they don’t or really put himself out there) at least one is gone and probably both. It will be a sad day for me when if they are traded, just like it was when Friesen and Nolan were traded. But, the emblem on the front always comes before the name on the back.
Joe Thornton’s agent/brother apparently posted on twitter that Joe isn’t going anywhere.
Maybe DW misplayed his hand? Thought he could push Thornton out through veiled media pressure? Because his agent sure doesn’t seem to indicate there are any windows or anything like that. And I bet Marleau’s contract is pretty much a carbon copy.
This offseason is going to be very interesting…
Well that definitely adds some intrigue, although I guess if I’m in Joe’s shoes I don’t want to look like I just rolled over and left if that ends up being the case. Still it’s interesting to say the least, It does not sell me that he’s not going to be asked to at least explore leaving or be moved.
Ahh speculation, ain’t it grand.
We need to remember what someone else already mentioned – we thought Heatley had a NTC too. But DW apparently had a window of time where he could trade him.
I’m thinking one or both of Jumbo or Patty have similar windows in their contracts. They may not have any say in it. I would be surprised to hear DW has legal right in their contracts at draft time to trade them.
Time will tell for sure.
Maybe, but if Joe Thornton’s brother/agent is making those comments, it sure as heck sounds like Joe has total control of whether he leaves or goes. If there was a window to trade Joe, I can’t imagine an agent coming out and saying that he intends to stay in San Jose.
Just to add to the conversation, Bob McKenzie talks Thornton and Marleau on TSN Radio.
Yes, it’s Joe and Patty that need to go, despite the team never icing more than half a decent defense, never a decent goalie and rarely ever any depth past the 2nd line. But sure, let’s ship two of our best players out so we can really get an understanding of what it was like to be a Flames fan for the last 5 years.
Hyperbole bull shit.
Sure the D wasn’t great and I don’t like Neemo.
But It wasn’t either of those things that went 0-16 on the PP.
It wasn’t either of those things that had the worst 5on3 I’ve ever seen.
And it wasn’t either of those things that are responsible for the complete lack of scoring in the final 4 games.
Like DW said James Sheppard and Matt Irwin can’t be the only guys scoring when the team needs it the most.
This teams leadership and veteran core fell flat on their faces, yet again. If you can’t see that then there’s nothing anyone can say that will make you.
And even without Marleau and Jumbo as is – we’re still better than the Flames. Better roster, better coaching, better front office.
My fear isn’t rebuilding – it’s becoming the Buffalo Bills or the Texas Rangers.
I often refer to my forwards as power play quarterbacks, oh wait, no, that’s not it at all.
We have no defense. Boyle fell off a cliff and we had nothing else in the last 3 games that resembles offense. We’re trotting out Scott Hannan on power plays, great.
You know you have jack and shit for defense when you ice a forward with a weak slap shot on your top power play group.
Vlassic is the only legitimate top pair defensive guy we have, Braun maybe an average 2nd pair defensive guy we have, and we lost Vlasic. The rest were 5-7′s at best. Of course we didn’t score anything, we couldn’t get out of our own end with Stuart on the ice.
Niemi is so great they started a rookie in game 6. But yes, it’s Thornton that needs to be shipped, the guy who’s linemates include the top 3 scorer in the league and one of the best power forwards in the league, and they shot at less than 2% for the series. You want to blame anybody for Jumbo’s lack of production, it’s that Pavelski and Burns couldn’t hit the broadside of a damn barn for 7 games.
I don’t really want to get into a huge back and forth with you.. But you’re totally overemphasizing my position.
For the record – I think we should trade everyone over age 30, except Torres. I would consider trading Pavs only if a bigger fish came back the other way.
I blame Neemo just as much as I blame Dan Boyle, as I blame Stuart… and I especially blame Jumbo and Patty for the reasons stated above. I never said trading Jumbo and/or Marleau was the ONLY move I wanted or the only move we NEEDED.
I think the whole, “the supporting cast wasn’t good enough” argument is an old tired excuse. And when the team has tried to fix it’s problems via that route, it hasn’t worked.
Either way, I think Jumbo and/or Marleau are getting moved regardless what we think. I think DW has had enough. And frankly so have I.
You’re obviously entitled to your opinion and I respect it, I just think you’re way off.
When did we ever give them a supporting cast. The Kings 3rd line consists of Stoll and Williams… Ours had James Sheppard and Tommy Wingels. But hey we made up for the lack of forward depth by beating the Kings defensive… oh no, not that at all. But at least we had a better goalie… well shit.
So, the Kings have better depth at forward, defense and goalie, but you’re right, we’ve fixed the depth problem for those guys.
Frankly it’s a miracle that we won the 3 games we did. If LA had showed up at all in the first 3 games they would have swept our asses right out of the tournament.
That’s funny cause I thought we were talking about the San Jose Sharks – in the top 5/6 of every team offensive and team defensive statistical category for the regular season.
And even with Torres and Hertl (2 top six forwards) out most of the year including Couture for a good stretch we won over 50 games.
But I guess Jumbo and Marleau did that all by themselves whilst carrying the D and the other ten forwards too!!
Your narrative is bull shit. The fact is the Sharks are one of the BEST regular season teams that falls apart come playoff time.
Hell, even one of the Kings broadcasters said on the MvsW podcast last week that he thought SJ was these team on paper if all three CA teams. And he’s right – on paper. Come playoff time though if the other team punches them in the nose they fold.
Yup, the Sharks fold, just like the Ducks and Blackhawks. I can’t wait until Anaheim chases Getzlaf and Perry, who did jack and shit in their run out, maybe Toews will get the boot in Chicago. He nearly cost them game 6 with a stupid penalty that gave the Kings a lead in the 3rd. Kane showed up for all of 2 games.
Jumbo was 13nth in the league in points, 2nd in assists. He has a lot to do with it. Marleau’s line, along with Couture was a shut down line against the top compitition, and still did that job without Couture.
Jumbo helped Pavelski break the 40 goal limit, a feat he will not do again without a similar caliber center (which we don’t have outside of Thornton). So, yes, those two carried our asses all the way through the regular season, as you so adeptly pointed out, we lost major other players throughout the season.
The team plays solid team defense, Vlasic is fantastic and can push the play in the other direction with about anybody on the ice with him. Braun is alright and Demers had a good year for the most part. Boyle couldn’t get much going after the injury due to apparently lack of sleep and that hurt. Hannan and especially Stuart were train wrecks all season long. Of course to really prove that, McLellan would start them together in the offensive zone only to have the puck always, ALWAYS end up back in our end. At the end of the day, through 2.7 of our 4 losses, Stuart was eating up 20 minutes and Demers was somehow our best puck mover.
I mean, if failing when things are on the line, how is Pavelski, Couture, Burns, Braun, Demers and the rest of them not on the chopping block? What exactly did our 40 goal scorer do in this round? Thornton gave him plenty of opportunities and he couldn’t bury it. he shot at 2% for the series, 2%! he shot at 20% in the regular season. Burns fell from about 10% to 2% as well. How exactly is that Thorntons fault? He didn’t hold their hands and show them how to score goals.
Did Couture do anything that series? Anything at all, aside from get his ass kicked up and down the ice by Kopitar, who scored in every single game against us?
I mean hell, if we’re going to blame players it seems odd that those two especially get no blame. The highest trade value we have is Pavelski after that 40 goal season, lets sell high since he’ll never do it again and he apparently is completely useless in the post season.
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Would you listen to the Dudes live-broadcasting during an away game?