rulururu
Two dudes blogging and podcasting about the San Jose Sharks, straight from sunny California.

post DOH 309 – Tomorrow Is Today

July 7th, 2015, 1:48 pm

Filed under: podcast — Written by Mike

Last year the Sharks were a “tomorrow team”, and now after the signings of Paul Martin and Joel Ward, the Sharks’ tomorrow has come early.  The Dudes discuss the moves, whether the strategy is sound, and try to fit the pieces together of a very different Sharks team than last week.

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23 Comments to “DOH 309 – Tomorrow Is Today”

  1. Ruben says:

    Nieto or Wingels for a guy like Jared Spurgeon or Ryan Ellis. Those are your targets, I think. Vlasic-Ellis/Spurgeon, Martin-Burns, Braun-Dillon is VERY good, a complete 180 from last year.

    • Ruben says:

      Something else to think about, Nieto doesn’t carry enough salary ($925k) to provide an upgrade on the backend and stay under the cap (unless they waive Mike Brown and eat his salary).

      If the Sharks move a forward, it will almost surely be Tommy Wingels who makes close to $2.5million. Both of them are 30ish ptt players but Nieto still has some upside and is only 22. With Ward, Smith, and maybe even Torres, Wingels might be deemed expendable.

      • Ian says:

        Man I’d be sad to see Wingels be the guy to go but the more I think about it the more I think you could be correct.

        • Ruben says:

          Same here, one of my favorite players on and off the ice. It almost makes too much sense to send him to Nashville for Ryan Ellis, he would make a hell of a 3rd line over there with Paul Gaustad and give them even more depth scoring.

  2. Ian says:

    Dudes,

    Great Show I’m glad to hear a not doom take on next season. It was refreshing, I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks the west is far more wide open than most feel it is.

  3. James says:

    Vegas currently has the Sharks at 60-1 odds to win the cup. No way Jumbo is a top 5 center still. Last year nhl.com put him at 11, which sounds about right.

  4. YANHLTroll says:

    Good show!

    Something else to think about that you didn’t mention when talking about Nieto and others is that Nieto, Hertl, Tierney and Goodrow are all on two way contracts. They can be sent down (over?) to the Barracuda without having to clear waivers.

    I think they have to eat Brown’s contract and also trade someone else making north of $1.5m per year to get the defenseman you dudes were talking about. I agree with Ruben that it might be Wingels, but I’m not convinced yet. We may yet see Tennyson on that 3rd D pair with Dillon. My guess is they’ll try that pair out in camp and possibly even preseason also before panicking and pulling the trigger on a trade to get another D-man. My guess is, if it’s going to happen, it’ll happen in November like the Demers trade happened last season.

  5. Taylor says:

    The big positive to adding Martin and Ward isn’t that the Sharks instantly become contenders, but that the Sharks don’t have to rush as many young guys into the NHL as we’ve seen in the recent past. The Sharks really seem to be operating on the assumption that Torres is playing this season. Top priority now should be getting Marleau and Nieto and their combined -29 off the roster. Need a much stronger second line to make the playoffs. Biggest gamble no one is talking about: Martin has been plagued with injury problems recently, which was a big part of the reason the Pens did not want to pay him UFA money.

    • Tom says:

      “The big positive to adding Martin and Ward isn’t that the Sharks instantly become contenders, but that the Sharks don’t have to rush as many young guys into the NHL as we’ve seen in the recent past.” – Taylor

      So this is a very intriguing theory to me… Perhaps DW actually believes that the youth he already has, and is drafting, simply isn’t ready. And to playcate ownership and fans, he will put together at least a playoff team. While I won’t agree they are contenders, I do think they can definitely make the PO’s.

      Perhaps the real rebuild and turning over of this team just cannot happen until #12 and #19 are just gone for good. This way the guys like Goldobin, Mueller, Jevpaolovs, Chartier, Meier, Roy, etc… have two solid years at least in the AHL?

      You might be spot on Taylor. And if that is the plan and the longer term isn’t being ignored, I can get behind that.

      • Mike says:

        I also love this theory because I can root for the current Sharks incarnation while continuing to delude myself that the Sharks are looking towards the future.

        Thanks Taylor!

  6. MJ says:

    so many “if”s and “maybe”s in that podcast, sounds like the earth has a greater chance of being destroyed by a comet this year than the sharks do at winning the cup.

    all joking aside, so happy sharks signed ward. martin & martin not bad either. but, improvement enough to get them over the hump? we shall see. hope DW has at least one more move up his sleeve, as you guys predict.

  7. Matt says:

    Doug Wilson speaks! Just listened to the v W podcast interview. Wilson sounded a little defensive. I laughed aloud when he said that last year’s team direction was “crystal clear.” He also twice said he used the same terminology as the Wings. I haven’t heard Holland use the terms “rebuild” or “tomorrow team” during the Datsyuk era. And didn’t Babs leave because the retool-but-make-the-playoffs strategy leads to an early playoff exit ? Wish Wilson had answered the question about how he delicately got Jones from LA via Boston. If Jones is really good, that will look like a great DW move, finding your starter and also weakening a division rival. Also noted that Wilson repeated the same two words to describe the players he wants: “smart” and “big.” How about looking for these qualities Doug: leader, consistent, hungry, gamer.

  8. Nav says:

    As a sharks fan I really enjoy the podcast your guys put out and I usually agree with most of your assessments. I only have one qualm with you guys. TOTTENHAM!?!?! Really!?!?!

    “What do we think of Tottenham? ****! What do we think of ****? Tottenham!”- Jack Wilshere

  9. Ted says:

    Hey dudes, love the podcast. Keep ’em coming. Question in regards to the Sharks roster moves. Can we say that Doug Wilson’s vision of the forward position has failed in the NHL? Much has been made about how he can’t put together a third line. But what about the top 6? We’ve seen “Doug Wilson forwards” come and go, guys with soft hands, but little or no heart and consistency. Think Setoguchi, Cheechoo, Ekman, Milhalek, etc. Even the best of them, Thornton and Marleau, are unable to elevate in the playoffs. One can’t imagine Lombardi or Bowman adding any of these players to their rosters. They go with killers, guys who pay the price and deliver, who are what Doug called “gamers.” I see more soft guys coming up in the ranks. Nieto, Mueller, Hertl, none of these guys look like gamers either. Maybe the Doug Wilson vision of the forward is not going to win us any cups.

  10. Juice says:

    I love how people still dog Joe Thornton, the guys is yes older… but still an good player. any forward playing on his line scores 30 goals. he is not selfish… and costs a fraction of players his caliber make. you can put him on a 2nd and 3rd line if you want youth to take over and still make out on him, I have never understood why he gets so much crap. Because he is the captin?

    if Joe (and marlueau) were making over there worth… I could see it but there not. Marlueau seemed to have lost a step or somthing last year, but i think he will have a bounce back year. if not your getting a good player for 2 more years.

    • Nathan says:

      Never read anyone on this blog arguing Joe Thornton is not a good player. The criticisms of #19 are well documented. 1) Poor playoff performance, i.e. -27 playoffs vs. +174 regular season 2) Bad attitude and lack of leadership shown by public comments insulting his GM, former coach, and former teammates 3) Allegedly difficult to coach, ignoring coach’s instructions or game plan.

      • Ruben says:

        Perhaps he had a couple of bad playoffs with the Bruins, but his PPG in the playoffs with the Sharks is comparable to Jonathan Toews and Toews has never had to drag around guys like TJ Galiardi.

        His +/- in the playoffs is almost directly attributable to his goaltenders’ SV%. Joe Pavelski is a +76 in the regular season and a +3 in the playoffs. Marc Edouard Vlasic is a +110 in the regular season and a +1 in the playoffs. Dan Boyle was a +37 in the regular season with the Sharks and a -13 in the playoffs. Are all of those guys playoff chokers? The Sharks goaltending in the playoffs over the past 10 years has been nothing short of awful.

        2) I’m only aware of him insulting DW, who basically scapegoated him. I couldn’t find anything about him criticizing former teammates publicly, or him specifically being difficult to coach. You would have to extrapolate from team-wide comments (TMac had trouble getting through to the team) and then discount that Thornton is the only who has consistently performed every year including last year.

        The only thing well documented, really, is that the Sharks have not even been to the Cup Finals with Thornton (and Marleau). And from what we know about what it takes to win in playoffs over the past 10 years (hot goaltending and depth which the Sharks have never had), it is amazing to me that virtually any blame is put on Thornton (and Marleau) for the franchises failures. But, most fans have staked their flag on one side or another so the only way Thornton is going to change minds is by winning a Cup with this team as its leader, which seems unlikely at this stage of his career.

        • Nathan says:

          The derisive comments are well documented. i.e. the Merc article “This Time Joe Thortnon takes a jab at Sharks coach Todd Mclllan.” You may be right that +/- is an overrated statistic. But I would actually argue that yes, all those Sharks players underperform in the playoffs. The whole core needs to be replaced. It’s not that they are bad players, it’s a cultural problem and Jumbo is at the center of it. if Pavs was on the Hawks I could see him hoisting a Cup. But if Thornton was the Hawks captain and they didn’t have Toews, they would never make it to the finals.

          • Ruben says:

            Hmm, I thought it was well known that Thornton meant that as WANTING TMac to come back.Still can’t find anything about him being difficult to coach or a bad teammate. Even TMac had effusive praise for Thornton after he took the Edmonton job. They guy isn’t exactly Alex Semin or Jeremy Roenick.

            Everyone seems to wave off all the stats showing Thornton is not the problem. Almost a PPG player in the playoffs, has played in front of something like .905 SV% goaltending over his 10 years here, a bottom 6 that has never contributed anything (the two best runs came with Couture/Malhotra and then Pavs in the bottom 6).

            It’s like the only thing more powerful than his negative “cultural” vibe is his passing skill because everyone he can pass to seems to play better, even in the playoffs. The only guys affected by his “vibe” are the guys he can’t pass to (the goaltender and bottom 6)!

  11. Cyoor says:

    Where are you guys?
    Hockey podcasts would help the hockey starvation going on right now during the summer. You don’t have to make it full of any good hockey news or even make it long. Just something would help filling this void.
    🙂

    • Greg M says:

      Yeah I’ve been missing some Dudes On Hockey lately. Yeah there isn’t much Sharks news, but there is always something hockey related going on. With this and Marek vs. Wyshynski on hiatus, the lack of hockey talk is bumming me out.

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