DOH 273 – Kevin Kurz and the Joe Thornton Controversy
June 3rd, 2014, 5:16 pm
The Dudes speak to Kevin Kurz of CSN about lots of topics, not the least of which being the new controversy surrounding Joe Thornton, and whether he might leave San Jose.
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A lot of food for thought in this one so I thought I’d add some random thoughts of my own.
The constant flames comparisons, I feel like (and feel free to correct me) that the reason the flames ended up where they are is because they kept emptying the cupboard to try and win now which DW has gone away from by starting to grab draft picks in the last couple of years.
Do we overvalue Couture? Maybe. Should we judge the quality and value of the 25 year old by his not making the Canadian Olympic Team? That’s flat out crazy being in the final conversation of that team should speak volumes as to the quality of player that Logan Couture is. I don’t think the younger guys should get a pass and most of them don’t seem to want one but the idea that we should just start trading out from the bottom would make this team far worse in the short and long term.
Having low draft pick(s) would be fantastic but if you look at Pittsburgh who yes has a cup but I think there is something to be said for having success and building around those players in the ELC’s for because once your out of the ELC’s the cap space gets smaller and it becomes very easy to be a top heavy mess and then you have the Edmonton Oilers… who may actually win something eventually but I’d be losing my mind if I was an Oilers fan at this point.
I think if DW is truly hell bent on getting Jumbo gone for the sake of getting him gone I don’t know if he has the luxury of sending him to the east, it would be awful for a Hawks team with Joe Thornton eliminates the Sharks in the playoffs but worse would be sending Joe far away for a terrible return just to have him far away.
The Canadian Olympic team valued Marleau over Couture, sorta says a lot in that department. I know almost nobody here would make that judgement. They’re right too, Marleau is a better player right now, maybe not in two years, but I think that’ll be more of an age thing and less of a Couture actually passing him thing.
The Oilers problem isn’t that they’re top heavy, it’s that they have no defense, which really sounds familiar going forward, but at least we have Vlasic. Their goalie’s were horrendous too, so at least our average one is better there too. Ship Thornton and Marleau and get nothing in the way of real talent right now and we’ll know how they feel.
At this point I hope one of them ends up in Chicago or LA, or maybe one in each. That would be awesome. I’ll enjoy watching them crush the Sharks in the playoffs for the next few years.
I actually didn’t mind that Marleau was on the Olympic team and enjoyed arguing with my friends that he along with Vlasic would play real minutes on the team and not be the healthy scratch / 7th D. Its a good point though about them valuing Marleau over Couture in an argument for keeping Marleau and one I definitely buy into. For what it’s worth I never really considered Marleau not being here next year, Jumbo I’m not so sure and don’t confuse want with think here. I just don’t think that not making that team when you look at the list of players that are not there over some who were (lol Kunitz because he plays with Crosby) its an impossible team to make and it shouldn’t be as much an indictment of Couture as much as it was a vote of confidence in Marleau.
On the Oilers we agree, I was trying to contrast the Oilers and the Penguins in that statement. I should probably do a podcast… I feel like I speak better than I write. My main point was just that striping it down to get top five picks guarantee’s nothing and that the the optimum time to win is during the ELC years of those players because it gives you the best chance to build around them.
As for hoping the end up in a place to crush the Sharks… I Like you but your a sick sick man.
The wanting to see them crush the Sharks is just schadenfreude. It’ll at least give me somebody to root for while this team plummets down to the playoff bubble. The Kings and Ducks will continue to own this division and if Vancouver gets a decent coach they’ll be a problem again. I never count out the Coyotes, and maybe one day Edmonton will get their act together. Things are bleak if we decide to do something stupid.
The last part of my post was some friendly ball busting. Agreed about the toughness of the division though although I think the Canucks issues may need more than a coach to fix. I wonder what return they can get for Kessler since it seems he still wants out and I’m not sold on Lack as an NHL starter. With the exception of the Canucks and Oilers though it seems like the rest of the Pacific is at least trending in the right direction and as you say the Oilers could finally figure it out.
Playing devil’s advocate:
So if we hadn’t signed Thornton, we would have just let him walk. Is getting a second rate goalie prospect and a third liner really worse than getting nothing at all?
Just sayin’
-Hate
excellent point dude!
That is only assuming he agrees to a trade.
I drove down to LA in Jan for family, and ended up getting tickets in the upper deck at Dodger Stadium, I was above first base, and it was phenomenal. The view wasn’t significantly worse than being in Section 201 at the ‘tank. And if they do one, especially at PacBell park, I would go in a heartbeat.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201891717668745&set=a.3607791907601.2149306.1057778794&type=1&theater
Great P-cast dudes.
Just want to chime in on the Jumbo-to? conversation.
I’m really struggling with the idea that Philly would want Thronton. They already have Lecavalier and Giroux… and Jumbo cannot play W, so I’m not sure that works, but maybe I’m missing something?
And alternatively, I think Toronto might be the ONE place where a deal could be made. They need a top center, Jumbo if from Ontario, and they have prospects and picks to parts with.
Anyways, who knows but for my money I think Detroit and Toronto might be the 2 top teams that could make the right deal. Given DW actually has some leverage or and out on the contract.
Why would you ever play Lecavalier over Thornton at center? That’s a joke right? I mean, people are down on Jumbo, but lets be serious.
Chicago needs a second line center to replace Handzus (dear god how was he a 2nd line center?!)
Anaheim needs a second line center to replace Koivu.
Montreal could use a player over 5’9″
Toronto does actually need a real center, since they don’t have a single one at the moment.
Yeah, great podcast. I was dreading the Kurz interview, his writing comes off as pretty antagonistic but he was refreshingly balanced in his interview. Though for a guy on TV all the time he seemed pretty nervous and stuttered quite a bit (I know, off topic). Still, it was quite enjoyable.
In the end, I don’t think Marleau or Thornton get moved. I think they pull a Mats Sundin and stay. I think it causes Thornton to lose the “C”, but I think it will go as well as it did when Marleau lost it (as in, it becomes no big deal). I see Vlasic getting the C, with Couture playing the new Dan Boyle “fiery” role with an A and Pavs getting one as well (or maybe Wingels).
But, for the Sharks to ever catch the Kings and Hawks (as far as big guns), they need their Kopitar/Toews. While I think Couture is a fantastic player, we are talking 2 of the top 4 or 5 centers in the game. I don’t see him ever getting there, which is no insult. But that means, to me, that we CERTAINLY can’t have Andrew Desjardins going up against Brandon Saad or Mike Richards. It’s much easier to find depth than to find an Anze Kopitar.
The Rangers don’t currently have anybody with a “C” and it doesn’t seem to matter. The letter means almost nothing, and Marleau still being on this team proves that. Guys lead because they’re leaders not because of felt stencils.
Agreed. Not only that, the Rangers have two former captains that basically whined their ways off their former teams (Nash and St. Louis). Somehow their room has survived.
Yzerman was considered a terrible captain for years, then all of a sudden the Red Wings got Sergei Federov and a bunch of other really talented guys, they win some Cups, and now Yzerman is a leader of men.
I get the sense that somehow Jumbo Joe will be gone, but Marleau will stay. The captaincy will go to Pavs or Couture, but DW keeps Marleau and the 30+ goals he’s good for each year.
Anyone think Tampa Bay might be a destination for Joe? Wouldn’t Yzerman love to see Joe setting up Stamkos. Especially after losing the offense of St. Louis. It’s a warm climate, in the Eastern conference, and a past trade partner for the Sharks, as well as having been mixed up in several trade rumors.
Tampa is an interesting name, with a healthy Bishop and Stamkos I feel like they can hang in the east but I don’t know enough about Tampa to consider what the Sharks should go for as a return.
In total shock that DW resigned Brown. And for 2 years. Can’t understand that move at all.