DOH 297 – Rock Bottom As the Trade Deadline Approaches
March 1st, 2015, 3:34 pm
The Sharks did not win a home game in February, and have been one of the worst teams in the NHL in 2015. As the trade deadline is at noon on Monday, the Dudes explore what players may no longer be Sharks come Tuesday.
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Great podcast, as usual. I would give up Nieto for Bernier in a heartbeat. I think the asking price would be much higher than Nieto and a late-round pick.
I like Bernier. I’ve said before I also like the idea of having the Kings former goalie who was passed over for Quick. They aren’t the same players of course, but remember how much a P.I.T.A. Kipper was to play against after we traded him to Calgary? I’d LOVE to have that card over LA.
that said, I highly doubt DW does it. I’m growing more and more to believe that DW is just content with half measures. He seems to damn afraid of risk to make a move like that.
I agree with Taylor, I would trade Neito a pick for Bernier. Is it risky – yes. But I grow tired of DW’s refusal to move forward, or even pick a clear direction at this point.
Neemo isn’t the answer in fact I think he’s a weight on this team. And if he is our goalie past the summer of 2015, I’m done defending DW and I will clearly be in the “Fire DW” camp.
Totally agree on nemo being a weight on the team. If only chicago didn’t match the hjalmerson offer sheet. I wonder how different this team would be then.
How pissed is Ben Smith right now? Goes from a Cup contender to a bottom feeder with no direction. As for the few deals today, same old Wilson, out of ideas so he just fiddles with the 3rd and 4th lines. P.S. I guess we’re not the only one who thinks little of Niemi.
I like the pickup of Smith. I think Desjardins has about twice as many hits compared to Smith this year, but Smith had 14 goals last year, 4 more in the playoffs, and is a little younger. Based on Wilson’s comments in the press, this off season should see some major shakeups. Of course, we’ve heard that before!
“I wanted to make moves, i just couldn’t get anything done.” -Doug Wilson
You nailed it. More half measures veiled as “changes”. But its just the same old crap again and again.
It seems that DW have not even talked to Marleau and Thornton about anything regarding trades at all and he does not seem to want to do it either.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/sharks/sharks-wilson-wont-ask-thornton-marleau-waive-no-trades
Marleau said on Sunday that DW had not been asked him to waive his no-trade clause. Still, he added: “If I’m not wanted, then that’s a different matter.”
So this is totally on DW imo.
Thornton and Marleau would not be approached by management to relocate this summer no matter how the rest of the 2014-15 season plays out, though. The Sharks are two points out of a playoff spot with 19 to go, headed into Monday’s home game with Montreal.
“Players would have to come to me,” Wilson said. “The integrity of building that type of contract with those types of players, they would have to come to me. I’ve been very transparent on where this team is at, and where it’s going. They have a clause that’s in their contract, and I at no point have ever asked either one of them.”
OMG
So, Stalock plays with confidence and gets a shutout against the top team in the Eastern Conference. I tune into the Canucks game, hoping he can build on it and get some momentum going, maybe turn his season around. And what does the coach do? BENCH HIM FOR NEMO!
Mark my words. The Sharks will rattle off like five wins and get everyone all worked up, then fall apart again. Or charge into the POs and then fail. I’ve seen this bull shit too many times.
Wake me up when its the offseason or they make a final.
So long Freddie Hamilton, the latest in a long line of unsuccessful draft picks under DW. It kind of cracks me up that Wilson’s new strategy is to stockpile late round draft picks. He was only too eager to trade away first rounders between 2008-11. I always recall that aggressive move at the ’06 draft to get Ty Wishart. Yeah, that worked out well. Keep ’em coming DW.
you guys have no clue….. bunch of malcontent whinners. your not Edmonton or Buffalo. 10 years straight of 100+ point seasons garunteed playoffs. hell you made rhe playoffs what 18 of the 24 years of your existince. and all you do is whine cus of a new direction. what a bunch of entitled asses!
I didn’t want to have to be the one to say it . . . and I’m glad I wasn’t; but . . . “Stever” is 100% correct.
All you DOH — MOANERS — make the rest of we Sharks fans look like a **BUNCH of DUCE-BAGS**.
Granted, the undercover L.A. Kings fans, Mike and Doug bare some of this blame. But, not all.
Please. You people are the worst fans a team could have. Go route for Chicago, L.A., Anaheim . . . or FUCKIN’ Dallas. [Like Mike and Doug do.]
P.S. Dude. The kings are a team of scumbags. The Gaints are the best baseball team of the modern era. They share NOTHING in common.
Just quit humping that lie, Doug. <<<—KINGS FAN.
Seriously,
Are you retarded by birth or did you suffer some sort of accident?
Well, that escalated quickly. How cute.
Why so feisty, eh?
Let me elaborate. I’m not baging on Mike or Doug. I like their fairly decent objectivity. They dont always have it though. A lot of fans said blow it up and rebuild with the Hertl and Couture types…. Guess what WE ARE! Stop complaining we are young and inconsistent. It comes with the territory. DW and Tmac said we would take a step back. The Niemi bashing is old. Even if he took us to the cup finals you guys would still crap on him because he is “that guy” who replaced Nabby. GET OVER IT! Just think of how much worse we would be with out Patty or Jumbo. Stop bitching they might want to finish their great careers here. Appreciate Joe’s legendary skill. And lets see what happens at the draft and in the offseason.
Hate me for saying it or not with crazy-trade chatter aside:
First of all, to defend a goal, you’ve gotta have TWO entities… Goalie and defense. PERIOD! (There’s a reason they’re called DEFENSE – hulloooooo) When we have forwards playing better defense than the actual D, you KNOW we’re in trouble. This isn’t to dump on our D-men AT ALL, because it has VASTLY improved (thanks to the Demers/Dillon trade – Sorry to the Day-Meeers fans) but you can’t blame it all on Niemi! You just can’t! There has to be cohesion, otherwise, the rest of the team is letting the goalie down.
Stalock is a fine goalie and I know that he’s going to be great, but right now, either his confidence isn’t what it used to be or something ELSE is still going on which was only aggravated by that injury in November (which could also have an affect on the mentals, too). A goalie has to be confident and right now, Stalock crumbles (although I was SO glad to see some semblance of that confident ole Al again, on Monday).
As far as our “sucking” and possibly not making the playoffs this year… Steve is right! Over HALF of the fans were screaming “nuke and repave” after last years devastation and most of them were calling for Joe and Patty’s heads. Understandably, it was passion fueled and very much “in the moment” but sometimes, you can’t rebuild without the foundation being rocked a little. What we have right now is just the beginning (D-Dub and T-Mac said it themselves). Plus, keeping Thornton and Marleau on the roster is also allowing us to acclimate these younger players and keeping a LITTLE bit of the current foundation intact (while transitioning to the new “core”) until we know if this new team can stand on its own.
Rome wasn’t built in a day and there will be casualties along the way.
Have a little faith, but while anger and frustration is COMPLETELY NORMAL… Folks, use your heads a little bit too and try to look at it from a bigger picture and as objectively as possible. More goes into the NHL than just two teams and a cup…
At least my feelings are not an “in the moment” thing. I have a quite sane reasoning here.
Fact 1: The sharks will not win the stanley cup this season or the next.
Fact 2: Marleau and Thornton are getting older and losing their value on the market.
Fact 3: The value of the draft picks are going in a similar way to 1/x where the first couple of draft picks are almost guaranteed to become good NHL players.
Fact 4: You will not get the first draft picks unless you are at the bottom or trade for them.
So knowing those things AND wanting the sharks to win the stanley cup as soon as possible, I beleve that the longer the sharks keep Marleau and Thornton, the harder the rebuild is going to be. The sharks will not end up at the bottom of the standings and get good draft picks unless they are willing to trade them away. Also they are not going to get good picks by trading for them unless they are willing to give up some assets.
Now DW has said that he has not even talked to Marleau / Thornton about even the posibility of getting traded, so this will probably not happen. So the discussion is probably pointless to be honest.
The problem as I (and some others) see it, are the half measures going on, leading neither to a cup nor to good draft picks and a rebuild. Trading for 7th round picks will not do much.
Cyoor,
No, no no… I completely appreciate and understand your reason. While I think many peoples reactions were emotionally charged, I don’t pretend that there aren’t people who had/have justifiable reasons for their feelings. I’m totally up to hear other peoples’ thoughts and opinions (even if I don’t agree). Perhaps my feelings on Marleau and Thornton are somewhat unconsciously emotion based (not entirely uncommon for me and I completely admit that) but I’m looking at things from a completely different angle.
First, I admit that it would probably do the Sharks WONDERS to get a great draft pick and probably try to score an amazing rookie, but if we “tank”, as suggested, attendance/ticket sales will more than likely plummet (based on comparison – how often we sold out in the past and how often we didn’t during difficult times this year). If fans jump ship during that time of growth, as some may, there’s only so much they’d be willing to do to keep funding up. If its proposed to compensate financials by RAISING ticket prices (which was a concern for some season ticket holders during LAST off season) it’s only going to cause sales to suffer further.
You can’t please everyone, but you can try your best to minimize the amount of fall out that you’ll inevitably suffer. In my heart, I would STILL like for us to “luck out” and make the playoffs and win the cup this year (while while I know that it’s just NOT going to happen), my mind understands and sees things from the “what’s best” standpoint. I agree that we should try to get a better draft pick with all the talent there, but the sad truth is, you can’t have both without suffering repercussions in more areas than just one and I think that’s a big part of the “half measures” that you’re referring to. They suck, and I really wish DW would just pick one and go with it, I think he may be trying to figure out which and he may dig himself into a hole by the time he does.
…AND THEN there’s the TV affiliates and other behind the scenes groups, affiliates, organizations, blablabla, that they have to please and so on…It’s a slippery slope, I just hope it gets sorted out before it’s too late.
I agree with what some people here are saying and I really don’t with others, and that’s just my opinion.
I could also be TOTALLY wrong. Which is entirely probable, but this is why I said that I think there’s more to it. I also might be over thinking this a little bit too, which wouldn’t be unusual either.
Personally, even if we completely trash this roster and start from scratch (win or lose) I’m still going to cheer for my team. Good or bad, I’m not a band-wagoner. I probably wouldn’t bet the farm on us at that point, I’m not that crazy, but I would still love my team. Growing pains suck, but they’re a necessary part of a “rebuild” if I may be so bold in saying the “R” word.
I understand your feelings..
Regarding the low attendance on the games and so on, I think that the non hardcore fans will leave once they are out of the playoffs anyway.. So in my opinion it might be more beneficial to be super clear to the fans that this is going to be a rebuild and then just tank for 2 seasons and get back at it after that.
Making the rebuild as quick as possible is probably better than to drag it out.
lets say the sharks end up 7th from the bottom this season, then tank for 2 seasons. Maybe they get one one 7th pick one 3rd pick and one 1st pick? from that. They also trade marleau + thornthon for high picks or young talent.
Add that to the young core the sharks have now, and I think that they can bounce back quite fast.
Maybe playoffs again the year after and then 2-3 years more => Stanley cup.
That would be when pavelski and burns are around 35 years old. Waiting to long and drag things out might make the sharks not have the current top talent on top anymore.
(I will not read here more, so if you have more comments, post in the most recent podcast comment)
I do think Neuvirth or Bernier are the best options to go after this summer for goalies.
no we wont be at the bottom but Thornton and Marleau really arent contributing this year either like they have. so it seems even with out them we are still better then buffalo,edmonton,carolina,arizona, and toronto (this year anyways). i too would like to see pattu and joe win a cup even if it was some where else. buy until it happwns just enjoy what they do.
“Thornton and Marleau really arent contributing this year…”
**ugh*
You should’ve ‘quit while you were ahead’ Steve-O . . .
Why do I have the feeling that we’re dealing with only ONE very disturbed individual?
My thoughts exactly.
Well Doug did try to make a move to get Evander Kane…. He didnt want to give up the young assets they were looking for. And it sounds and seems with all the cap room we have he would go after some other top level talent after the season.
Disappointed that DW didn’t flip Hannan and Niemi for picks. Disagree with the dudes that late-rounders wouldn’t have been worth it. And it’s unthinkable that TMac hasn’t played Stalock since he got a shutout against the Habs. I don’t understand why Pavs can’t get the C immediately, Stalock start the majority of games to see once and for all if he can be a starter, and in the offseason Thornton and Marleau pushed to waive their NTC’s for prospects/picks. A year late, let the rebuild begin.